Blind PuppyQuestion:I had a litter 2 1/2 weeks ago, Now all have opened their eyes and one little female opened hers last wed. Now here comes the problem the dam is Piebald and the sire is piebald showing dapple. This little thing has NO eye at all for no reason is this just a fluke?? I want to kepp her sister an issabella m/l dachshund but am afraid to because of the no eye incident I called the breeder i bought the dam from and she couldn't explain it maybe one of you can Thanks Judy Jordan www.Dachshunds-N-Doxies.com Answer: With merles, you should not breed them to another dog with anything more than Irish markings on their coat. Too much white can lead to puppies being born deaf, blind, with no eyes, etc. A good breeder will research genetics BEFORE they breed. Answer: This is true with Dapples but they BOTH ARE NOT DAPPLES. I did research, their pedigrees and The dam has NO dapple (she carries blk/tan,blue, issy, and cream piebald) and the sire is piebald carrying dapple (he carries for cream mldp, cream pbld,blue pbld, & issy,chocolate pbld) You can breed pie to pie and pie to dapple, BUT NOT DAPPLE TO DAPPLE. We are talking about DACHSHUNDS now,this is the very first time, i ever had a litter that was not sound and fit. I just wanted to see if this has happened to anyone else who breeds dachshund Thank You Judy Jordan Answer: But you do breed Dapple to Dapple: http://www.dachshunds-n-doxies.com/RUDYSPEDIGREE.html Are you sure you're against puppy mills? Answer: No, actually... I have a merle and I have researched them extensively before I bought her. Too much white in a breeding is dangerous. I can give to the link to MANY MANY different websites stating this as well. Too much white can cause a laundry list of birth defects... especially hearing and sight problems. You said that you have a piebald merle... you can not breed a piebald merle to a piebald... that is TOO MUCH white in the breeding. A good breeder will research genetics, like I said, and I think it is awful that your lack of research caused a disabled puppy. And another thing: this is NO SUCH THING as a dapple carrier. They either have the gene, or they don't. This just shows that you are not a good breeder. Answer: No he is not Merle he is a cream piebald and yes i did my reasearch. I am a very responsible breeder and you sound like a know it all and i don't mean to ruffle your feathers but you have some nerve to tell someone that asked a simple question to be so VERY RUDE and to state that I am A BAD BREEDER, maybe you should look in the mirror. Plus i don't care how much reading on genetics you do you will always have a surprise now and again. One question ARE YOU A GENETIC SCIENTIST? Answer: Hershel you checked my double dapples pedigree who is NOT THE FATHER of the litter (RUDY). The sire is Yogi Never ever will I breed a dapple to a dapple only to solid females. Plus if you are looking for a puppy mill, maybe you should go to dufours dachshunds who's been arrested 2x's in 1 1/2 yrs for abuse or Keystone kennels in Georgia in fact visit this website you may gain knowledge Pet Abuse.com Answer: ^^^^ No, you don't have to be a genetic scientist to pick up a good book on genetics and read it. However, irresponsible breeders will not take the time to read up. See, you didn't even know that dogs cannot carry the merle gene. That says something. Answer: Don't fight about it, now bjordan19 could you say once again what the genetics of both the mother and the father are to clear it up. Answer: Jesse, I read and look up and go to semminars all the time on breeding in Gainsville florida where some of the most renowned people/doctors work. Yes i know they carry a merle gene but you stated that he was merle which is also a COLOR in different Breed Types, they also carry the chincilla gene and e-red etc. Would you like me to go on i can!!!!!! Like i said you are just plain rude Answer: No, merle is not a color. It is a pattern ;) No, a dog cannot carry the merle gene. Like I said, they either have it or they don't. Answer: The Mother (jazz) is a black & tan piebald no DAPPLE in her background Yogi is a Cream piebald and carries for dapple in his pedigree. I had 1 baby from the litter not develope and eye ball I just wanted to know if this was a fluke, I called both breeders i bought them from and neither one had an explanation so i thought i would throw it out there. This is the first time in my experience that i have had such a problem and was looking for a simple answer The emergency vet i took her to becaause she was having problems,was determined to c-section her,then when she tore her uterus and my Jazz laid on the table for 5 hours under sedation and they had to call in another vet because there was so much bleeding due to their mistake and then charged me $2025.00 for this error. One more note I WAITED 2 1/2 YEARS FOR THE PERFECT COMBINATION of pedigrees and genetics. Thank You Judy Answer: Merle A marking pattern, used in conjunction with another color, to describe Shetland Sheepdogs, Collies, Great Danes, and Australian Shepherds. The color is characterized by a marbling effect of dark patches against a lighter background of the same color. Color definitions may vary by breed. Always check the breed standard for the definitive color description From AKC Glossary Answer: You say you've spent "years" researching, yet I can plainly see on your webpage that you are breeding double dapples: http://www.dachshunds-n-doxies.com/EXPECTING.html Answer: Yes, like I said, merle is a PATTERN, not a color. The merle gene dilutes the coat, which affect color... but it is NOT a color. Answer: By the way, do you health test your dogs? Answer: Where????????????? I am breeding Whoopie who is a BLK/tan PIEBALD and Rudy A double Dapple That is permissable. And Tiny a BLACK/TAN solid to a double dapple which is permissable Answer: Yes. Do You Answer: To be honest I don't think you should be worrying about if it's a fluke or not. Just don't breed those two dogs together again or breed the same gene combanations again. Too risky by the sounds of it. A bigger concern is what are you doing with the eyeless puppy? Are there any other signs of defects with her? I wish you good luck. That puppy is going to need a special home. :) Answer: It might be a fluke, it might be something related to the genetics. At any rate, I probably wouldn't repeat this mating, especially since the mother had so much trouble whelping. Blind dogs can live good lives, they just need the right home, more so than a seeing dog. Good luck with her. Answer: ^^^ I don't breed my dogs, so I have no reason to have them health tested. Answer: They spayed the mom and the puppy is heathy otherwise and the baby will stay here with one i bought for my daughter that has iris colombam(from a different breeder in mississippi) The other 4 are doing very well no problems, 2 cream males, issy female and a cream female all fat and sassy Both pups will be spayed and never bred Thank You Judy Answer: The lady that bought her sister, is in with RESCUE down in the Bahamas and is thinking of taking her to be with her sissy. But if not she will have a wonderful life here with me and my family.She can see out of the other eye so that is helpful,plus all my babies live in my home, not in kennels or crates Like i stated the mom is spayed and will never breed again and will stay here also or will go to a special home with another dachshund Thanks Judy Answer: Do you have some pictures of this litter? I can't say as I've ever really seen doxies that weren't either red/tan or black/tan...I've now met two dark merles, one smooth, one long. Answer: Do you have some pictures of this litter? I can't say as I've ever really seen doxies that weren't either red/tan or black/tan...I've now met two dark merles, one smooth, one long. Yeah I was going to ask if I could see pictures too! I've never seen anything but black and tan ones. I've never actually even met one with a long coat. They aren't the most popular breed around here but I suppose that is a good thing. Answer: I am so sorry to hear about the poor puppy with a missing eye. Sometimes things happen. We learn from those hard lessons. You say the mother is spayed. Good. But please don't repeat a similar combination. I owned a ML Dachshund once, and considered showing and breeding. She was a dapple. I chose not to get into breeding because I found that there are too many not-so-good breeders out there, and it seems that there are an awful lot of Dachsies being bred for no other reason that to "produce" pets and make money. I've been through your site. I don't see any titles on any of your dogs. I must have high standards, because if I was looking for a Dachsie, I would look for either a CH or earth dog titles on the name. It is my opinion that dogs used for breeding should have to prove themselves breeding-worthy in some way before they are bred. Breeding just for "pet puppies" in no way furthers any breed. Answer: I am a very responsible breeder Do your dogs have any conformation titles or performance titles? Do you do health testing? Sorry but I found nothing on your website suggesting either of these. Frankly dogs who have not been proven have no place being bred. We have enough pets in this world! Just because your dogs are cute and sweet doesn't mean that they deserve to be bred. It is probably just as fluke as far as the eyeless puppy goes. Has the vet checked it out? Are there any other defects going on as usually there will be a couple. If this were my litter I would suck it up and cull the pup. I am very happy to hear that the mother has been spayed, but what about the sire? Answer: I must have high standards, because if I was looking for a Dachsie, I would look for either a CH or earth dog titles on the name. It is my opinion that dogs used for breeding should have to prove themselves breeding-worthy in some way before they are bred. Breeding just for "pet puppies" in no way furthers any breed. Sure you have high standards! But that's the thing, all breeders need to be held to absurdly high standards. There are plenty of dogs dying in shelters each and ever day. Does that mean that I'm against breeding? Nope. It means that I'm against irresponsible breeding. And an irresponsible breeder isn't necessarily a bad person, it can also be someone who just doesn't have the experience or information, or has been given bad information. Answer: ^^^I agree. I also believe that all parents should be health tested before being bred. Answer: BLK/SILVER PIEBALDM FEMALE (BLIND) http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/jjordanphotos/HPIM3286.jpg CREAM PIEBALD MALE http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/jjordanphotos/HPIM3460.jpg CREAM PIEBALD MALE http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/jjordanphotos/HPIM3445.jpg ISSABELLA PIEBALD FEMALE http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o137/jjordanphotos/HPIM3470.jpg Answer: The first puppy, the blind one, looks merle to me. You first said that one of the parents is a merle, and then you are saying that it isn't. Answer: The 1st puppy was born BLUE/Tan and changed to Blk/silver Piebald Thank You Judy Answer: It looks merle to me. Answer: There is no Color for a dachshund of merle and there is no PATTERN for merle in a dachshunds You Have Patterns in dachshunds solids, dapple,double dapple,piebalds,brindle,sable Thank You Answer: Dapple is merle ;) Please research accordingly. Here is something you should read: http://www.starlightkennel.com/Dapple.html Answer: You just want to argue so do it by yourself and try being a little nicer to people who ask advice THE SAYING WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND it will Thank You Judy Answer: I just get very upset when someone is a very obvious backyard breeder. You do not even understand how the dapple/merle gene works, and you are breeding these dogs. Because of your ignorance and lack of research, a puppy was brought into the world with a birth defect which could have been prevented. I find it very sad that you are breeding dogs without researching even basic genetics. I asked you before, are your dogs health tested? Answer: No one here is trying to argue, we're just trying to explain some stuff to you to help you out. Answer: Thanks for that link Jessie, it was very informative, even if it wasn't meant for me :) I had heard that breeding dapple to dapple was bad, but that clears it up pretty good. Answer: can see out of the other eye so that is helpful, Just thought I'd state I only can see out of one eye and though it is cleary better then being blind it is a bit of a pain. I am constantly getting hit in the head with stuff getting thrown at me and walk into stuff a lot. I feel for that puppy. We're in the same boat. Answer: How do you know that this puppy can see out of one eye, even? Answer: How do you know that this puppy can see out of one eye, even? I asked myself the same question. Has she been checked by a vet to know her eye works? My mom thought I was slow when I was little because I never saw what was being passed to me on my left side. My left eye looks totally fine to an uneducated person but an eye doctor knew right away what was wrong with me. If you haven't yet go get her checked out. Answer: I agree, this puppy should go to a specialist (if this hasn't been done already). You cannot know with absolute certainty if this puppy can see out of its eye. If the puppy was born with one eye missing, it is very likely that it has some kind of defect in the eye that it has. Answer: Dapple is merle ;) Please research accordingly. Here is something you should read: http://www.starlightkennel.com/Dapple.html And it says right on this page that problems breeding double dapples INCLUDE ABSENT EYES! This is something that is known to happen when doubling up on dapples. The dapple gene in Dachsies and the merle gene in Collies is the same gene. The puppy didn't need to be born without an eye if you had done your homework before breeding. Poor thing. Okay, I've GOT to STOP READING this thread. I'm just getting madder and madder, the more I learn. :mad: BIG sigh..... Answer: Jessie- I just wanted to compliment you on your knowledge. Thank you for posting that link, it was very informative. Hopefully the OP will also see it that way and stop breeding. Or, at the very least, learn to breed responsibly and take Mariah Carey off of the website. :rolleyes: Answer: See, you didn't even know that dogs cannot carry the merle gene. Not to go off topic, but actually dogs can carry the merle gene. I am not familiar with other breed genetics, but in Great Danes, the merle gene can in fact be carried. Genetic Inheritance of the Merle Gene It is only recently that investigators at the Texas A&M University (reference: PNAS, 2006, 103(5):1376-81) discovered a mutation in the dog SILV gene and found it to be responsible for the merle coat color patterning in dogs. The merle gene (M) is inherited in an autosomal fashion. In other words, the trait is not linked to gender and can be passed on from either the mother or the father. The gene is incompletely dominant, or a gene that has intermediate expression. A heterozygous dog, carrying only one copy of the merle gene (Mm), expresses the characteristic diluted coat color pattern. A non-merle dog (mm) is normal in color, while a homozygous double-merle (MM) is predominantly white. Punnett squares can be used to determine the expected coat color of offspring when breeding dogs of known genotype (i.e. coat color genes have been identified). In the example illustrated, a non-merle dog (mm), indicated in the vertical column, bred to a heterozygous merle (Mm), indicated in the horizontal column, will give rise to offspring with an expected frequency of 50% merle (Mm) and 50% non-merle (mm). Dogs that carry the merle gene but do not show the characteristic merle phenotype, are known as cryptic merles. These dogs may give rise to merle offspring. It is suspected that the DNA sequence of the merle allele in the cryptic is shorter than the allele expressed in the typical merle dog. The harlequin coat color pattern in Great Danes is produced through the interaction of the merle locus and the harlequin (H) gene. In harlequin Danes, the merle background color is diluted to nearly white with fully pigmented black patches. Answer: The article isn't saying that a dog can carry merle. A phantom or "cryptic" merle is a merle who is born showing the merle pattern, but has a very light colored coat. As the dog grows older, the pattern fades from its coat. This dog should never be bred to another merle, and the owner of the puppy should be informed that the dog is indeed a merle. Also, it needs to be listed as a merle during registration. Answer: Here is some more information about phantom and cryptic merles: One parent has to be merle to get merle. It is a dominate gene that is not carried recessively. If the puppy has the gene for merle then it will express itself, even if only temporarily. A hidden or Phantom merle are merles that are not seen by the color pattern and should not be bred to a merle. Phantom merles have visible merle markings at birth, but as they mature the merle markings disappear. Even though the merle markings are not visible, these dogs are still merles and will produce merle offspring when bred. Genetically they are merle and can produce merle puppies. Answer: There is now a test, listed on the Great Dane club of America's website, that was created to test dogs to find out if they carry the merle gene so they can determine if they should be bred. They are specifically looking to see if the animal is a CARRIER of the merle gene. And here is a list of some of the breeds that carry the merle gene: http://www.lethalwhites.com/links.html Again, not meaning to side-track this topic or argue, but it has been identified as a gene, and it is carried, thus the new DNA test to identify merle carriers. Answer: Yes, there are some merles who are hard to decipher if they are merles or not. They are phantom and cryptic merles. You can test them to see if they are merles. This is especially important when a merle is bred to a brindle, and the pattern becomes indistinguishable. When they use the term "carrier" that means that they do have the merle gene, which is expressed in their coat. It is not like a fawn dog carrying the blue gene. Either a dog IS a merle, or they are not. Answer: Any non merle, even if it has a merle parent can safely be bred to a merle, because merle is a dominant gene and is not carried . If you have two non-merles out of merle parents and grandparents and great grandparents, as long as neither is merle they cannot produce a merle because the gene is NOT CARRIED. If you end up with a merle puppy out of two apparent non-merle parents, then one of them has to be a hidden or phantom merle. Answer: My final comment is; the baby already has been to a specialist (she can see out of the other eye),yes my dachshunds have CERF I appreciate all your comments and disagreements. some of you were very informative and others rude.Some of you DON"T breed that is your option and some of you show your babies, I did read the link on starlights website about Double Dapple and Merle, it was informative but i knew most of what was written. There are many breeders who do not care about what they do and alot of Backyard breeders who just want the money. I care about my babies and am not out for all the money, because there is none if you do it properly with vets, health cert. eye exams and 2 set of vaccines,& bordetella intranasel, DNA all puppies, inspections, microchips, ETC, I just want heathy and sound puppies and this IS MY FIRST PUPPY THAT WAS NOT SOUND out of all my litters and MY FIRST C-SECTION with one of my dams That is why i asked the question about my baby's eye because i could not get an answer but you all have whipped it into me and that is fine and informative. Thank you all very much for your opinions Answer: There are lethal genes commonly associated with double dapple. Not all double dapples have these problems and it is believed by some to be more of a problem in some lines than in others. The problems associated with lethal genes in double dapples there are varying degrees of vision and hearing loss, including reduced or absent eyes. As far as I am concerned.. any reputable breeder would be aware of this. You don't seem to fit that bill. Stop breeding. Answer: Actually, I am a student studying genetics at Texas A&M where that research on merles is being done so.... Merle is the same as dapple. It affects colored areas, but it itself is not a color. You cannot carry merle as it is a dominant trait, but it can be hard to see- ie cryptic merles. They may have little to no merling except in very small areas, or it may only be visible when the animal is young and may fade. Just thought I'd clear that up. If you need more info, I'm sure I could talk to Dr Byrk or Dr Gunn to get more about the research being done... The genetics department is really good about that kind of stuff. Your puppy looks like a double dapple to me. If the parents were Jazz x Yogi (Is that right) you should not have a double dapple pup. Neither of them are merles and therefore should not carry the merle gene. Answer: Lauralin, You are right the two parents were Jazz & Yogi Like i stated the dapple is in the males pedigree but not the females. and i understand this breeding of this pair will not happen again as she is spayed. I think the pairing was okay at the time (because of no dappling on her side)and i didn't expect this to happen to one puppy, it was very upsetting I believe someone marked the pedigrees incorrectly and that in it's self is another PROBLEM with breeders. I have a red solid doxie that was marked red and found out she is dapple by her white patch When i see a patch of white on a chest of a solid i believe that it is either a dapple/merle marking and the spots have faded or a piebald mrking that is when i dig further into the pedigrees This puppy is a mldp mini longhair dapple piebald and these puppies are being sold as pet only not breeders 2 of the puppies are going to a rescue home in the Bahamas where they will be spayed Thank you for your advise. Answer: Buddy's parents There is no mariah Carey on my website Answer: Actually, I am a student studying genetics at Texas A&M where that research on merles is being done so.... Merle is the same as dapple. It affects colored areas, but it itself is not a color. You cannot carry merle as it is a dominant trait, but it can be hard to see- ie cryptic merles. They may have little to no merling except in very small areas, or it may only be visible when the animal is young and may fade. Just thought I'd clear that up. If you need more info, I'm sure I could talk to Dr Byrk or Dr Gunn to get more about the research being done... The genetics department is really good about that kind of stuff. . So, I'm confused then... Why does, for example, this page (http://www.bordercolliesociety.com/BC_Info/Health_Info/deafess.htm) citing a veterinary journal say: "Border Collies also carry the dominant merle gene M,17 another pigmentation allele associated with deafness." Also, the Merle Gene test? What specifically is that looking for if not for carriers of the merle gene. Not trying to be a smarta$$, just trying to understand this. It has always been my understanding that merle is a carried gene, not just a pattern. I'm open to learning. :) Answer: Buddy's parents There is no mariah Carey on my website Really? Cuz her ear piercing voice screeches from my laptop when I go to your web page! :yikes: :lol-sign: Answer: laurelin, I have had dapples(merle) puppies come out with a pattern and then fade as they get older and always marked them as red dapples. If you state that dapple and merle are the same okay (maybe i didn't understand the concept of the term MERLE) always known as Dapple to me, i was taught that dapple was a dominent gene and that piebald was recessive gene????? Answer: You say you're not in it for the money.... and yet people can use credit cards for your pups? And it appears as if you take down-payments before meeting prospective buyers? Sorry, I don't buy it. Answer: So, I'm confused then... Why does, for example, this page (http://www.bordercolliesociety.com/BC_Info/Health_Info/deafess.htm) citing a veterinary journal say: "Border Collies also carry the dominant merle gene M,17 another pigmentation allele associated with deafness." Also, the Merle Gene test? What specifically is that looking for if not for carriers of the merle gene. Not trying to be a smarta$$, just trying to understand this. It has always been my understanding that merle is a carried gene, not just a pattern. I'm open to learning. :) I'm thinking what they're trying to say is that merle is a dominant gene found in border collies and that merle is a pigmentation allele associated with deafness. Merle is an incompletely dominant gene meaning it affects the dog incompletely. It dilutes certain colored areas (black in your standard merle) and then other areas are left black- the patched pattern visible. double merles are dangerous because areas can be affected twice by the allele- hence the large amounts of white. this can cause the deafness and deformity seen many times in double merles. A healthy double merle can be bred without any problems to a solid. All puppies should be merle. The article also says this: A second pigmentation locus associated with deafness is the merle locus M. Different dog breeds, such as the Border Collie, Dachshund, or Great Dane, are known to be heterozygous for merle (Mm).23 Dogs who are homozygous for merle coat color, MM, are usually mostly white in color and, if they survive, are often deaf, blind, or both; may have ocular abnormalities, eg, microphthalmia; and are sterile.23 For this reason, breeders tend not to breed 2 merle dogs together. What is the merle test exactly? I can't find it on the page and haven't heard of it before. Answer: I'd guess the merle test is something to do with trying to decide whether a dog is actually a merle. Like I said, it is sometimes extremely hard to tell a merle from another. It is usually easiest to tell as a puppy as many dogs fade. Many sable merles especially are virtually impossible to label as a merle when they are fully grown. That's why it is so important to mark which puppies are merle when they are first born. No matter the extent of merling in the adult dog, a dog that carries the merle gene is dangerous to breed to another merle. Merle can't be carried, it can be hard to spot, but the heterozygote- Mm- is a merle, mm is a double merle and MM is a solid. Only recessive traits can be carried. Answer: No I meet everyone before buying a puppy,they can use that to make final payment if they want and most breeders use PAY PAL at least i don't charge the 3.5% surcharge that most others do because it is not correct Answer: here's a pic of a cryptic merle- http://www.ashgi.org/color/PHOTOS/Cryptics/gibson.jpg See the minimal amount of merling? It only occurs on this dog's ear, and therefore is hard to spot. Here's a full page, note the bottom puppy- http://www.ashgi.org/color/Cryptic_Merles.html after the tail is docked, the dog will look entirely like a tri when it is actually merle Another one- http://www.belmarkshelties.com/Images/rebelheadf.JPG Could easily be mistaken as a blaze. Sable merle- http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/photos/Santana.jpg Very hard to see... Answer: I don't know about everyone else, but I really enjoyed the "Puppy Hint" page recommending Pedigree Puppy Food, and saying that it was a good quality food :eek: Also, by the way, grapes are toxic to dogs. You have them listed as something good for dogs to eat. Answer: This is La Casa's Chihuahuas- she has a merle page... and here are a ton of pictures of phantom merles: http://www.chihuahuamama.itgo.com/FAQs.htm And here is a good site about genetics: http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/BasGen.html Answer: At the very least, this thread has been a boon of genetic information. :) Answer: just because he's hot, though pretty easy to see the merling, here's another crytpic- http://www.dogpatch.org/images/sheltie/pogo.jpg Answer: Yes it has been quite a learning experience. I have a list of food not good for MOST Canines,infact 101facts on food,plants and much more. I take it you do not watch protein to fat intake in your babies, If my site offends you then get off it!!!!!! Answer: Grapes are toxic to dogs. I do not watch protein to fat intake because...? Because I do not feed a low quality food like Pedigree? Answer: Grapes: Toxic to dogs: http://dogs.about.com/cs/disableddogs/a/poison_food.htm http://www.dogs4sale.com.au/Health_Nutrition_Grapes.htm http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_toxic_raisins.htm Answer: Laurelin - I've read some more on the GDCA website, and I think I've confused myself further, lol. Here's what it says at one point: "However the dogs referred to as "whites," "lightly-marked Harlequins," and "merlikins" may carry two copies of the merle gene and such dogs should not be considered the "same" as normal Harlequins or normal merles, are most likely going to have various defects, and most definitely should NOT be considered in the same context for breeding, as they carry an entirely different set of genes (genotype). See http://www.gdca.org/health/deafness.htm This is one reason to test all Harlequins and other Harlequin family dogs for MERLE; to see just how many merle genes each member of the Harlequin family carries. And it's a good reason also to help see the Harlequin gene developed." Here is the info about the test: WORK ON MERLE GENE Dr Keith Murphy and his Lab have just published their ground breaking work on the Merle gene. Thanks to the Great Dane folks who helped out with samples. Thanks to the GDCA and the Board of Directors who supported this work and the efforts of JP Yousha to keep Great Dane research at the forefront. Our club, GDCA is listed as a forward thinking example of a Club by the AKC and CHF for the progressive work done on research and distribution of information to GDCA members, and general public via the GDCA website. (Thanks to Nancy Lerch and JP for work on this also) Here is the link. http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/0506940103v1 [click on abstract free] It will be possible in the future to have a test for carriers of this gene, and if they carry one or two copies. This is an exciting break through. Dr Murphy and his team hope to move onto work on the Harlequin gene next. These are exciting times. Dr Murphy lab has also been looking at genes involved in DCM in Great Danes, Dobes and Boxers. Here's the link to the page if you'd like to read the whole thing. http://www.gdca.org/health/merlegene.htm Answer: :eek: Pedigree is certainly not a high quality food and grapes are indeed toxic to dogs. Please, please, educate yourself and visit our Dog Food forum.. there is much to learn there! And, every dog should be given a heartworm test! And if you have a male puppy neuter him before six months so he "don't life his leg and mark" ? Do you not have a spay and neuter contract? If the puppy has bad diarrhea it should be taken to the vet first to rule out anything serious illness. Then, a soft diet of chicken and rice or hamburger and rice should suffice. Also, adding canned pumpkin (not pie filling) helps with diarrhea (if it's not serious). Please, stroll around Chazhound, do some searching.. you have much to learn! Answer: I *think* what it's saying is that the merle gene as it affects danes produces the harlequin pattern. It is harder to tell whether a dog is genetically merle or genetically double merle in harlequins as it does not produce your average merle pattern- ie the grey with black patches. Harlequin dogs can be very heavily marked or lightly marked and that some of these lightly marked dogs are in fact genetically speaking double merles while others are just lightly marked merles. I'd guess that this test could tell you if your harli dane (would have to come from a harli x harli mating) is just a regular merle or a double merle since the two conditions look so similar to each other in the breed. Does that make sense? EDIT: It sounds like danes are affected by two different genes- merle and harl. I'm not too familiar about harlequins as most of my merle reading has to do with shelties. What is above still is true, i believe. harlequins can carry either one or two copies of the merle gene and it can be hard to detect. It sounds like they are trying along with Dr Murphy to figure out how the harl gene works. Answer: Back to the pup . . . I rescued an Aussie pup who was the result of a double merle breeding. One eye was absent and the other was only minimally functional. He could catch some light and a little movement but that was all. O'Reilly lived a long (16 years) joyous life, running in a fenced yard, herding my sister's Jack Russell, playing with the cats, his basketball, dancing the O'Reilly dance in the sunshine and generally enjoying life more than any creature I've ever seen. Answer: Thank You Renee, This puppy will have a happy long life,with the help of her sister,they will be living together Answer: Yes, there are some merles who are hard to decipher if they are merles or not. They are phantom and cryptic merles. You can test them to see if they are merles. This is especially important when a merle is bred to a brindle, and the pattern becomes indistinguishable. When they use the term "carrier" that means that they do have the merle gene, which is expressed in their coat. It is not like a fawn dog carrying the blue gene. Either a dog IS a merle, or they are not. If I'm not mistaken, a carrier means that you carry that genotype, but don't express the phenotype of the gene. Therefore, the carrier does NOT have the merle expressed in their coat. In humans for example.....color blindness is carried by females mostly and passed on to their sons, because the mutation for color-blindness falls on the X-chromosome, which can only be passed on by the mother, and therefore affecting their sons, since the sons only have the X chromosome from their mothers. I don't mean to get all into Genetics, but I just wanted to try to demonstrate what the term "carrier" really means. Answer: Well, yes, a female would have to be homozygous recessive for color blindness to have it, whereas a male would be recessive for one (and their only) copy of the allele. However, color blindness is a recessive trait that can be masked by a dominant allele whereas merle is an incompletely dominant trait. color blindess is also a sex-linked trait whereas merle is autosomal. Merle may not be always visible on an adult dog, but it is usually visible on puppies though sometimes it may be hard to see. So it's not always readily distinguishable however it is not carried in a traditional sense, if that makes sense. That's why puppies that result from merle crosses must be carefully considered when it comes to color. Sorry to keep going off topic... Answer: Yeah, I hadn't realized that merle was a dominant trait, until I did more reading. So its like an eggplant then with the incomplete dominance right? It's a good thing that it is dominant so that it can be detected right from the get go, as pups. I dont' think that the breeder was being careles, it's like she said...someone must have screwed up the females pedigree somewhere because everyone looking at the parents would not suspect that they both had the merle gene. She is obviously a caring pet owner if she is participating on these forums and reaching out for help on a devastating defect...we should not lash out so much at people that reach out for out help...keep it friendly guys :) Lauralin, Thanks for all the useful information and links...they were great, very interesting to read! Answer: "We feed our puppies Pedigree Puppy" and claim its good quality?! please STOP feeding this food...this is WORSE than feeding your child mc'donalds every day of its life! pedigree is nothing but chicken fat, corn and by-product, there is NO REAL meat in that food and is nothing but fillers! if you can buy it in the grocery mart its NOT a good food. anyone who thinks pedigree is a good food is NOT doing right by their dogs. whats this about if you get them on heartworm prevent before 3 months they dont need a heartworm test?! what do mosquitoes magically note bite anything under 3 months old. ALL puppies should be heartworm tested before starting on heartworm preventative, ESPECIALLY in warmer climates where mosquitoescan surivive year round! "do not give your puppy milkbones, (iams is better no sugar) no greenies they can have fruit, apples cantaloupe and grapes" iams is NOT better, iams is yet another over populaized food brand who have been supporting animal testing. GRAPES ARE HIGHLY DANGEROUS!!! "use twist rawhide" NO DO NOT GIVE RAWHIDE! in any way shape or form, rawhide doesnt digest, i cant tell you how many vets regular daily surgeries are to remove rawhide causing blockage. yes neutering a puppy before 6 months (ANY SEX NOT JUST MALES) will stop unwanted marking, but why not state the benefits on health and behaviour?! do they not count as benefits? if a puppy is poisend an immediate trip to the evet is in hand, the average puppy buyer should NOT be inducing vomiting! especially not based on some website! they get 2 sets of shots by 8 weeks? thats rather large amount to be loading your dogs system with! especially on a small breed! 1 set of shots at 8 weeks is plenty to go home with and much safer! why do CKC pups go home unlimited reg yet akc pups go hom limited?! ALL pups should go home on a spay neuter with limited reg (or in the case of CKC who dont offer the option of limited the reg paperwork should be withheald untill proof of spay/neuter has been recived! you also clearly state your pups dont need anything other than love the first month. this is infact very wrong ESPECIALLY wiht pups that have been shipped at such a young age (10 weeks is the youngest most breeders will ship) but the pup should see a vet that first week to check for parasites, and in general to make sure everythings fine, remember shipping is VERY stressfull to the puppy, that includes its immune system! as for the puppy, this is unfortunatly a common problem when breeding the merle with a primarily white (pibald) or any other merle, merle and primarily white NEVER mix well! she will be just fine with one eye, blind dogs do fine,as long as their givne a good home and they learn they can trust their people. i just hope that there will be no other genetic problems show up in the life of the pup, unfortunatly deafness is another common problem so you might want to get her hearing and good eye retested at about 6 weeks. if you raise your dogs the way your website suggests, you realy have a lot to change before anyone here will consider you a responsible breeder. the food choice alone is enough to agrivate most people on this board! if you dont know enough to know that pedigree is BAD (as is any food containing corn, biproduct and chicken fat as the main ingredients) then itll make many wonder how you would know enough to breed safely Answer: why do CKC pups go home unlimited reg yet akc pups go home limited?! Because CKC is a joke. Answer: Can we differentiate the two CKC's, just for clarification for those that don't know? The CKC - CANADIAN Kennel Club is not a joke. And they do have limited registration. The CKC - CONTINENTAL Kennel Club is a miller's and byb's registry. Answer: the ckc in question in this post is CONTINENTAL KENNEL CLUB. my point being that if the ak dogs are going home on limited, then the ckc dogs should have some kind of restriction planced by the breeder since the club itself doesnt. i personally think ALL dogs should go home spay/neuter contracted unless the person buying is a well respected knowledgable breeder and prior arranglemts have been made. but honesly in this case i dont think any of the doxie parents are anything special enough to warrent any being bred in the first place let alone their offspring being exceptional enough to go to good breeding programs. Mabe ive just been spoilt by seeing some fabulous show and working dogs that anything other than spectacular is just not worthy of breeding and should be placed in wonderufll loving PET homes only. Answer: So what happens when the person doesnt' want to be a breeder, but possibly show the dog at a later time?? How would this contract work with that issue? I am definately torn on the issue of neutering. I have grown up around many responsible people, some breeders, some not, who never had their dog neutered. My male is 7 months now and it isnt even recommended that large breed males be castrated until they are around 1 years old due to their slower bone developement. The only time large breed males should be castrated at 6 or 7 months is when they are having territorial problems. I understand the health problems that can be prevented from neutering, but there are also health problems that can surface from having the procedure. Castration usually leads to undesirable weight gain, which in itself can cause or exacerbate diabetes, heart disease and arthritis and with my dog, GSD, HD. There are also things that you can do naturally for you dogs lifestyle to help greatly decrease your dogs risk for cancer, ie, lots of excersise, good food diet, staying on the thinner size. I am definately lookin more into the pro's and cons of this issue, and like I said before, it is still undecided for me. Answer: I going to reply to this You people are really not humans at all, you have no respect for anyone or to anything held dear to someone. I FOLLOW TO THE LETTER EVERYTHING MY VET TELLS ME TO DO. You do NOT live in my shoes So I went by the PEDIGREE You folks bash me for believing in someone else's mistakes Heart worm testing is only done down here if the puppy is older than 3 months of age.Heart worm PREVENTATIVE is given the day they leave and then continued for the rest of their lives IF THE OWNER IS RESPONSIBLE My dogs don't have to pass your inspection TO BAD,they pass the Judges when I show (I have 3 with titles with 3 different canines) I don't have to BRAG to say OH I SHOW MY DOXIES, I have proof As far as food is concerned even Eukanuba has an no approval from the food and drug on the package. Beneful has sent an alert out fo their food. So has pet tabs. Okay if PEDIGREE is soooo very bad WAY DOES AKC SHOWS USE THEM FOR SPONSERS MONEY MONEY !!!!!!!! Yes my babies get GRAPES as a treat, one never hurts. DO YOU EVER EAT ANYTHING YOU NOT SUPPOSE TO????? Chocolate is another thing i give them (HAD A DOG SAVED BY GIVING HER CHOCOLATE BECAUSE SHE WAS IMMUNE TO TH EFFECT SHE ATE 10 OZ'S) How far is your vet???? the nearest emergency vet is 45 minutes away,YES INDUCE vomiting so you can get the dog to the vet before it dies. Where in heavens name is everyone's common sense Chew stick(not particle) yes for puppies leaves furniture alone, cow hoofs ok colored died objects not okay & never GREENIES I don't care whether or not YOU THINK I'M RESPOSIBLE OR NOT.You don't own a doxie . BUT I BET YOU THINK DUFOURS IS BETTER being arrested 2x's in a 1 1/2 years To many shots are given to the puppies nowadays 4,5 by some vets way to much FOR THE $$$$$$$ And Dachshunds are highly allergic to vaccines, so precautions have to be taken first before ANY VACCINE IS GIVEN I give vaccines so the babies are protect with MY VETS BLESSING. Infact i have 2vets and i be more than happy for you to call them So before any of you BLAST someone else BETTER lOOK IN THE MIRROR Before your FINGERS DO THE TYPING THINK ABOUT HOW YOU WANT TO BE TREATED. |
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