a breeding question

Question:
 i have heard a lot about breeding. people saying the parents should have one titles in the show ring and such.
but don't a lot of you also agree that the show ring has ruined a lot of good breeds?
also, i think controlled crossbreds can work very well. i believe if both parents are health tested then a litter of mutts should be bred where appropriate. as things like for instance. breeding a boxer to a rottweiler. you would be aiming for a strong athletic dog. with a big work ethic and poential to gurad. but the boxer attitude makes the pups more joyous.
or breeding a border collie to a cattle dog. you get the strong work ethic and high energy but your dog doesn't isn't as mad as some collies
i just dont agree that all dogs should be bred only if they have one dogs shows and such. plus. isn't it a bit like playing god to decide that only pure dogs can be mothers? thats denying basic rights to the animals we love most.

Answer:
You could argue that breeding dogs PERIOD is "playing God," regardless of whether or not you choose to breed purebreds or mixed breeds. People have been doing so for centuries, so the idea that it's only unfair when it's purebreds is kind of a moot point. Without people playing God we wouldn't have domesticated dogs period.
There are some cases where I see intentional mixed breeding as okay- Alaskan Huskies (which aren't a breed, but carefully planned mixes, and BAR NONE the best racing sled dogs out there), are one such example. But these animals are UNEQUIVICALLY better at what they do than any of the existing Nordic breeds- Siberians, Malamutes (who weren't meant for speed in the first place), etc.
The example you put forth wouldn't really fly with me. It's complete conjecture that the puppies would have the "joyful" temperament of the Boxer and the guarding ethic of the Rott. It's the same kind of argument I hear from the Labradoodle people: "It's got the coat of a poodle with the temperament of the lab!" Genes just don't work that way. If they did, then breeding ANYTHING would be a HECK of a lot simpler.
Besides, I see both of these breeds (Boxers and Rotties) as already being superb at what they do (depending on of course, who you choose to by from), nevermind that there are SEVERAL more guardian breeds to choose from in the first place. I'm not really sure how just crossing a Boxer and a Rottie would be a vast improvement on existing breeds (and it's only then that I would see it as a worthy endeavor). Besides, I think you'd be hard-pressed to tell people that own Rotties that their dogs aren't "joyful." I've met several lovely breed examples that have the ability to turn that goofy personality on or off when the occassion warranted.
Furthermore- dogs don't have rights. I know that SOUNDS mean, but legally they are considered property- and that's how I want it. Animal RIGHTS basically lead to the premise that the entire idea of domesticating animals is wrong (and thus, as PETA would like it, ownership of animals at ALL, would end) I am all for animal WELFARE- which means that dogs are given appropriate food, water, shelter, companionship, care, etc.
You open up a huge can of worms by with this statement:
plus. isn't it a bit like playing god to decide that only pure dogs can be mothers? thats denying basic rights to the animals we love most.
With that kind of logic, we would have to agree that deciding which dogs to breed at ALL would be unfair.Thus ALL dogs would have to remain intact, and allowed to indiscriminately breed with the mate of their choosing.
"Missy" has grade 4 hip dysplasia, but REALLY seems to like "Duke" down the street? Well, it would be mean not to let her fufill her "dreams" of having puppies, so lets go ahead and let her breed anyway. Too bad those puppies will most likely live in pain for the rest of their lives- pain that EASILY could be prevented. I bet you can see how such a statement is a slippery slope now- attributing human emotions to dogs seldom works in their favor, and that's exactly what you do when you worry about the fact that a dog might miss his or her "right" to breed.
Dogs have absolutely no idea that they're missing anything when you spay or neuter them. The same could not be said for human beings- and therein lies the difference. People who find out they have congenital disorders that could be passed on to their children can decide whether or not a pregnancy is worth that risk. Dogs however, cannot. So it's up to US to do it for them.
My neutered pet boy has no idea to be "sad" that he didn't get the chance to be a father. He has no clue that it was an option nature afforded him that I took away. However, he also will never have a clue what testicular cancer feels like...so I feel pretty good about that decision.

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I agree with what Tempura said :) . I don't like the idea of breeding mixed breeds even if you did health testing on them, what purpose are you serving by breeding MUTTS?? And Mrose I have had conversations with you in threads before and how you have 3 UN-fixed males that you don't plan on neutering just because. Aren't some of them mutts themselves? I hope you aren't planning on breeding any of them. And as far as crossing an ACD with a border collie that would be a bad combination with both having two totally different temperaments and believe me I know how Cattle dogs can be ;)

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mmm, what about a bitches right no NOT want puppies. I somehow doubt that they find whelping a litter a joy!
When I spayed my girl I gave her the right to walk in the park unharrassed by male dogs, free from heats, free from the pain and annoyance of whelping, free of associated disease of intact bitches.
Think on that.

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I don't care if a dog has excelled in field work or shows as long as its done one or the other and is health tested then I'm ok with it.
Out here I see the same mutts getting bred but they all do a job and go to farm homes. Do I think its the best thing-No,but these dogs ahve been bred for years now and everyone knows they can do jsut about anything. They should try to make them a breed:p they all look the same-lab sized shaggy black mutt,occasionally with tan points.
But if someone was to breed a set of dogs and say its for such and such purpose I don't really go along with that. You don't know what the dog will turn out like and crossing two purebreeds means you really don't know what you'll get. Both of your examples make a great point that it can go the opposite way. to breed the dog one would hope your not breeding any mad collie genes anyway so why do you need to cross breed?

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ok.... you have a good point but wouldnt you be sad if the puppies were unhealthy and had to be put down or died?? and plus there are thousands probably millions of dogs in shelters that NEED homes and could be put down because they were in there for so long?? think about that....

Answer:
I agree with almost everything Tempura said, except...
There are some cases where I see intentional mixed breeding as okay- Alaskan Huskies (which aren't a breed, but carefully planned mixes, and BAR NONE the best racing sled dogs out there), are one such example. But these animals are UNEQUIVICALLY better at what they do than any of the existing Nordic breeds- Siberians, Malamutes (who weren't meant for speed in the first place), etc.
The original sled dog purpose was to get goods and supplies from point A to point B in an environment where the only means of doing so was by sled. They were bred for strength and intelligence, not speed. When I see human ego brought into the breeding equation, I see a problem. Breeding for faster and faster sled dogs just to win races is, in my opinion, not a reason to breed.
I feel this way about conformation. If a breeder is breeding and breeding just to get more and more winners, then, IMO, that is the wrong reason. Yes, it is nice to win and win big in the show ring, but if that's the entire reason for a breeding program, how does that better a breed? "Fads" come and go in the show world; longer heads/blockier heads, taller dogs, shorter dogs, "big" moving dogs, etc. Using my breed as an example, in North America breeders seem to be breeding for larger dogs with BIG movement. To get big movement, you have to breed a longer bodied dog. My breed is supposed to be a square dog, long as it is tall. In Europe they are breeding for long, fine heads, and loosing structure and movement. This is a rather broad example as there is more to it than just this, but sometimes it seems that there is no balance. And there has to be a balance.
There is a big division in some hunting breeds between "show lines" and "field lines". Show lines are breeding to win in conformation, field lines are breeding for the more finely tuned hunting dog. Again, there needs to be more of a balance, and I commend those breeders who do get a championship AND field titles on their dogs. Now that is COOL! That is the way it should be. If I had my way, my dogs would have both a CH. and herding titles, but we don't have much in the line of herding here, so I do what I can to get obedience titles, proving that my dogs do conform to the "standard", but they also have brains. My limitation is that the obedience ring scares the snot out of me.... LOL. I'm working on that.
And as Tempura said, rights are something people have, not animals. The charter of human rights is HUMAN rights. I'm not saying this to be cold. Dogs are animals. Everything they do is instinctual, including breeding. If you want to call breeding a basic right, then so is hunting. They love to do it. Why not let them pack up and hunt? People get rather upset when Rover kills the neighbour's cat, (or, now don't jump on me, this is just an extreme example) packs of dogs kill a child in a rural community.... but isn't it the dogs right to hunt? It might be basic instinct to bring down the weakest creature, but it sure as heck is not acceptable when that weak creature is a child.
And when it comes to the sex drive of dogs, when a bitch is in season, they are looking for something specific to fulfill a specific drive - nothing is stronger than the drive to procreate. They are looking for the strongest male to come and have sex with them. They are not looking at the boys thinking "oh, that one would make some beautiful babies!" I am almost certain that if a bitch knew that approximately 9 weeks after having sex she would all of a sudden have squealing babies to take care of, she likely wouldn't be letting the boys near her.

Answer:
breeding a boxer to a rottweiler. you would be aiming for a strong athletic dog. with a big work ethic and poential to gurad. but the boxer attitude makes the pups more joyous.
How do u no it wont get the bad traits from the rottweiler and the bad traits from the boxer
or breeding a border collie to a cattle dog. you get the strong work ethic and high energy but your dog doesn't isn't as mad as some collies
again they might not get these traits from each breed
I dont mind mix breeding or breeding at all, as long as there is a GOOD reason,
WORKING or SHOW.
but ofcourse i dont agree with jst anyone breeding, i would only go for a breeder who does health testing, history in the breed, etc, alot more, but those are jst some of the more major qualitie

Answer:
All breeds come with their own set of health problems. In my opinion, it's like playing russian roulette when you buy a dog from a breeder who doesn't health test.
Breeding is more than putting two dogs together to have puppies. You, as the breeder, are responsible for adding more puppies into this world which take away from other homeless pets in this world finding homes. How horrible would you feel if you bred a litter of puppies who all had hip problems by the age of 2?
I agree with Spiritus... dogs are just trying to fulfill a drive when they are in season. They do not plan on having "cute little puppies," and do not dream about how much fun it will be as a "mommy."

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Breeding is more than putting two dogs together to have puppies. You, as the breeder, are responsible for adding more puppies into this world which take away from other homeless pets in this world finding homes.
Jessie, you are so right. I am a new dog owner (found my Shadow in a shelter) and was heartbroken to see all of the beautiful friendly and healthy dogs there, many of which would soon to lose ALL of their rights and be euthanized. And I only visited three shelters on one day....There are literally thousands of them around the country.
Sometimes talking about these dogs as statistics does not seem real.
Take a minute and follow this link, and scroll down to the "Gone but not forgotten" pictures. http://community.webshots.com/user/tparris2005
These are pictures of beautiful dogs that have been killed in just one small one shelter in just one year because more dogs are bred than there are homes to love them.
They ALL found homes when they were cute puppies. Just because you find a home for your puppy does not mean the owner will care for it always.
I think pets DO have rights. Those rights are based upon our obligations and "superior beings" to look out for the best interests of animals that WE choose to bring into this world and be our companions.

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The quote in my signature is one of my favorites. We created the domesticated dog, yet we are so quick to discard them and allow other people to "clean up after us."
A girl on another forum bred her mixed breed to the dog down the street... twice. She said she couldn't afford the spay, and that if she couldn't find homes for all of the pups then she would give them to the local SPCA. It is just so sad.

Answer:
Dogs have absolutely no idea that they're missing anything when you spay or neuter them
you cannot tell em that a dog doesn't know their missing something.
my mum had a dog called jack, he was big, strong, athletic and proud. he had a medical condition that ment that the vet had to keeep temporarily fixing himup. he was't neautered. eventually the vet told them that they should either get him neutered or put him down. they got him neutered. the day after his operation he came home and he walked down the driveway, mum called him back and he ignored her, she called again and he looked back as if to say "fu*k you" and kept walking. aftre that he just got fat and lazy. he knew what happened to him
And Mrose I have had conversations with you in threads before and how you have 3 UN-fixed males that you don't plan on neutering just because. Aren't some of them mutts themselves?
wrong, we have 4 dogs, 2 intact females and an intact male and a neutered male. buster was ment to have a vesectomy but the vet screwed up and neutered him. harry isn't desexed because, like jack he would just get fat and like jack, he would know. we don't plan on breeding them, but mum doesnt like the idea of cutting bits off her animals. if we make a mistake and think that harry might have got to one of them while their on heat, then we pay for the shots too make sure they dont get pregnant.
they are all mutts.
A girl on another forum bred her mixed breed to the dog down the street... twice. She said she couldn't afford the spay, and that if she couldn't find homes for all of the pups then she would give them to the local SPCA. It is just so sad.
your right, that is sad. i believe even if you are breeding mixes, then you are still responsible for finding them loving homes and making sure your dog is health tested.
i didn't open this for you all to have a shot at me. i opened it to discuss the topic. everyone in this forum is so quick to jump on anyone with an opinion slightly to the left of the mainstream

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I don't mean to get into conflict about fixing animals but I thought I'd state neither of my dogs have been fixed. Both are happy boys and I am on the fence about fixing them. I don't like the idea of fixing them but I understand why I should take serious thought and consiter both options.
I like mutts. I like them a lot. Especially mutts that make purebred dogs look like fools when they are working together. I don't agree with breeding them but I've seen some fine mutts do a full days work better then any purebred. My friend has this collie/cattle dog mix who herds better then any other dog I've met. He's also got a mutt he found as a puppy up in the bush and she's the best retriever ever. If our pet population wasn't in a crisis then I'd be all "RIGHT ON MAN! MUTTS FTW!"

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you cannot tell em that a dog doesn't know their missing something.
my mum had a dog called jack, he was big, strong, athletic and proud. he had a medical condition that ment that the vet had to keeep temporarily fixing himup. he was't neautered. eventually the vet told them that they should either get him neutered or put him down. they got him neutered. the day after his operation he came home and he walked down the driveway, mum called him back and he ignored her, she called again and he looked back as if to say "fu*k you" and kept walking. aftre that he just got fat and lazy. he knew what happened to him
wrong, we have 4 dogs, 2 intact females and an intact male and a neutered male. buster was ment to have a vesectomy but the vet screwed up and neutered him. harry isn't desexed because, like jack he would just get fat and like jack, he would know. we don't plan on breeding them, but mum doesnt like the idea of cutting bits off her animals. if we make a mistake and think that harry might have got to one of them while their on heat, then we pay for the shots too make sure they dont get pregnant.
they are all mutts.
your right, that is sad. i believe even if you are breeding mixes, then you are still responsible for finding them loving homes and making sure your dog is health tested.
i didn't open this for you all to have a shot at me. i opened it to discuss the topic. everyone in this forum is so quick to jump on anyone with an opinion slightly to the left of the mainstream
Since you have intact females at your house, I assume you are familiar with pyometra? If not, I suggest you read up.

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Neutered dogs only get "fat and lazy" if the owner allows this to happen. Some dogs require less food when they are neutered. It's the owner's responsibility to reduce food and keep them exercised.

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you cannot tell em that a dog doesn't know their missing something.
my mum had a dog called jack, he was big, strong, athletic and proud. he had a medical condition that ment that the vet had to keeep temporarily fixing himup. he was't neautered. eventually the vet told them that they should either get him neutered or put him down. they got him neutered. the day after his operation he came home and he walked down the driveway, mum called him back and he ignored her, she called again and he looked back as if to say "fu*k you" and kept walking. aftre that he just got fat and lazy. he knew what happened to him
wrong, we have 4 dogs, 2 intact females and an intact male and a neutered male. buster was ment to have a vesectomy but the vet screwed up and neutered him. harry isn't desexed because, like jack he would just get fat and like jack, he would know. we don't plan on breeding them, but mum doesnt like the idea of cutting bits off her animals. if we make a mistake and think that harry might have got to one of them while their on heat, then we pay for the shots too make sure they dont get pregnant.
they are all mutts.
your right, that is sad. i believe even if you are breeding mixes, then you are still responsible for finding them loving homes and making sure your dog is health tested.
i didn't open this for you all to have a shot at me. i opened it to discuss the topic. everyone in this forum is so quick to jump on anyone with an opinion slightly to the left of the mainstream
As far as a dog becoming fat and lazy from being fixed is a BIG myth. That has to do with what you do for them as far as exercise and what you put in there food dishes. Funny because I have two spayed cats and a 1 neutered male dog who lives with my parents and none of them are fat and lazy. I think the fact that your mum doesn't want to fix them is a lazy thought in itself. And to have all mutts and opposite sex to boot is just setting yourself up for an oops litter. You have been on here long enough to know that especially females get mammory cancers and pyometra so why not educate you mother into a different way of thinking and at least spay the females? I'm not directing what I'm about to say to your mother but "people" in general. Its peoples own ignorances that keep them from neutering and spaying there pets because of how they feel. The animals could care less if they are missing a part.

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didn't open this for you all to have a shot at me. i opened it to discuss the topic. everyone in this forum is so quick to jump on anyone with an opinion slightly to the left of the mainstream
When you post a topic, expect that people may have opinions that differ from yours, and that those opinions are just as valid. If that idea doesn't fly with you, then stick to topics that you know won't have differing opinions. I didn't jump on you, I merely disagreed.
As far as dogs "knowing" or "not knowing" whether or not they've been desexed. You're welcome to come to my house anytime and ask my NEUTERED male if he thinks he's missing anything when he's h*mping my intact b!tch. He doesn't seem to notice or care. (And yes, they're BOTH GONE). ;) The only thing he CAN'T do is father more puppies than there are appropriate homes for or succumb to testicular cancer- both of which I am quite happy about.
As for a neutered dog becoming fat...there's an easy fix to that. Exercise the dog. Reduce caloric intake. End of story. The only way dogs get fat is because people let them.

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The whole "animal getting fat once spayed/neutered" is a myth. Most commonly dogs are fixed at the age of 6 months... as the dog gets older its metabolism slows down. Also, as the dog enters adulthood they will calm down, or be "more lazy" than a puppy will be. Therefore, if the dog is overfed and underexercised, of course it will gain weight. As the owner, it is your responsibility to keep your dog stimulated and exercised on a regular basis.

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My vet told me to wait to get both my dogs fixed until they are two because hormones will make them fill out more? I don't know if that's true or not. It seems true seeing as you can tell the different between a stallion and gelding in horses normally. Both my boys are 9 months old right now and I'm on the fence about waiting to fix them or not. Though in my head I feel like I would be taking away a part of them my logical side is telling that side to shut up and be reasonable. They are going to get fixed. Im just confused on when to do it.

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My vet told me to wait to get both my dogs fixed until they are two because hormones will make them fill out more? I don't know if that's true or not. It seems true seeing as you can tell the different between a stallion and gelding in horses normally. Both my boys are 9 months old right now and I'm on the fence about waiting to fix them or not. Though in my head I feel like I would be taking away a part of them my logical side is telling that side to shut up and be reasonable. They are going to get fixed. Im just confused on when to do it.
Seeing as how you have two males and eventually they may go at it for dominance (fight) I would maybe wait till they are just over a year, possibly 18 months old. It's really all up to you............

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When you post a topic, expect that people may have opinions that differ from yours, and that those opinions are just as valid. If that idea doesn't fly with you, then stick to topics that you know won't have differing opinions. I didn't jump on you, I merely disagreed.
As far as dogs "knowing" or "not knowing" whether or not they've been desexed. You're welcome to come to my house anytime and ask my NEUTERED male if he thinks he's missing anything when he's h*mping my intact b!tch. He doesn't seem to notice or care. (And yes, they're BOTH GONE). ;) The only thing he CAN'T do is father more puppies than there are appropriate homes for or succumb to testicular cancer- both of which I am quite happy about.
As for a neutered dog becoming fat...there's an easy fix to that. Exercise the dog. Reduce caloric intake. End of story. The only way dogs get fat is because people let them.
My boy too! Neutered at almost five years of age due to a diagnosis of hypothyroid. Still would happily "breed" in season bitches, has had to have his food cut a bit due to his metabolism slowing down, but still works hard and plays hard. Not a lazy bone in his body. And he knew he was sore down there for a few days, but he did not know his testicles were missing. He still doesn't know.
I know of a golden bitch who just had a $1,300.00 spay surgery to save her life. She had such severe pyometra that her uterine horns were the size of a person's fore-arm, and her uterus weighed in at 7 lbs. It cost $1,300.00 to save her life - she would have died. Her owners should have spayed her earlier (she's five), but thought they might show and maybe breed, but then when they decided not to, they were already used to dealing with seasons (keeping their girl safe), and decided not to "waste" the money on an unnecessary spay. They could have spayed her years ago for $200.00. Instead, they chose not to. She developed pyo which is VERY common in unspayed girls, and they had to spend a fortune to save her, all because of one selfish decision.
As for "getting jumped on" (as said by mrose_s), I don't feel you have been. You brought up an issue that people feel strongly about and have a lot of experience with. You can expect to have people state their opinions when you post a thread such as this on a dog forum.

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My vet told me to wait to get both my dogs fixed until they are two because hormones will make them fill out more? I don't know if that's true or not. It seems true seeing as you can tell the different between a stallion and gelding in horses normally. Both my boys are 9 months old right now and I'm on the fence about waiting to fix them or not. Though in my head I feel like I would be taking away a part of them my logical side is telling that side to shut up and be reasonable. They are going to get fixed. Im just confused on when to do it.
If you have two intact males living under the same roof then you may want to consider neutering earlier than later. Around 2 or 3 is when most dogs reach mental maturity. This is the time when people start to see behavioral issues and/or aggression in their dogs. With intact males, if they are going to have turf wars, this is generally when it will start to rear it's ugly head. If you neuter younger, you have a better chance at avoiding this and less chance of leg hiking all over your home. A habit that once started is very hard to fix and by then a neuter wont help.
All that aside, I think neutered males are much happier companion dogs. I think it's cruel in a way to keep a dog intact if it is not part of a responsible breeding program. Many males are known to refuse food, loose weight, get hit by cars while in seek of a bitch in heat and become restless and agitated when they smell the "forbidden fruit." Not to mention, they wont get testicular cancer down the road. Can't tell you how many cases of testicular cancer we saw each year in intact male dogs...

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My boy too! Neutered at almost five years of age due to a diagnosis of hypothyroid. Still would happily "breed" in season bitches, has had to have his food cut a bit due to his metabolism slowing down, but still works hard and plays hard. Not a lazy bone in his body. And he knew he was sore down there for a few days, but he did not know his testicles were missing. He still doesn't know.
AHAHAHAHAHA!!! I remember the first time I saw him do it thinking to myself "WAIT!!! They're both gone aren't they???" And then doing a quick check at his hindquarters just to "make sure," despite the fact that this happened when he was 7 years old and I KNEW that they were both gone.
Hehehe- good to know my boy isn't the only "confused" one out there. ;)

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i have heard a lot about breeding. people saying the parents should have one titles in the show ring and such.
but don't a lot of you also agree that the show ring has ruined a lot of good breeds?.
H'mmm, that's kind of like the contestant auditioning on American Idol last night that blamed her "performance" on the wooden floor ...
also, i think controlled crossbreds can work very well. i believe if both parents are health tested then a litter of mutts should be bred where appropriate. as things like for instance. breeding a boxer to a rottweiler. you would be aiming for a strong athletic dog. with a big work ethic and poential to gurad. but the boxer attitude makes the pups more joyous.
or breeding a border collie to a cattle dog. you get the strong work ethic and high energy but your dog doesn't isn't as mad as some collies
As others have said, there is no guarantee that you'd bring out the qualities you want. It's just as likely you'd bring out the undesirable things in both breeds and put them into the puppies.
Not to mention that you'd be introducing health issues from one breed that may be afflicted with an issue to a breed that may not be. For instance, perhaps you've now introduced boxer cardiac problems.

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If you have two intact males living under the same roof then you may want to consider neutering earlier than later. Around 2 or 3 is when most dogs reach mental maturity. This is the time when people start to see behavioral issues and/or aggression in their dogs. With intact males, if they are going to have turf wars, this is generally when it will start to rear it's ugly head. If you neuter younger, you have a better chance at avoiding this and less chance of leg hiking all over your home. A habit that once started is very hard to fix and by then a neuter wont help.
All that aside, I think neutered males are much happier companion dogs. I think it's cruel in a way to keep a dog intact if it is not part of a responsible breeding program. Many males are known to refuse food, loose weight, get hit by cars while in seek of a bitch in heat and become restless and agitated when they smell the "forbidden fruit." Not to mention, they wont get testicular cancer down the road. Can't tell you how many cases of testicular cancer we saw each year in intact male dogs...
That makes perfect sense. Bandit is nicely filled out but I was kind of hoping Spanky would fill out a little more before I get him fixed. I feel bad about getting them fixed but I don't want any problems to arise with them. They are the best of friends and I'd hate for that to ever change. I'd rather get them fixed then have wars between the two of them.
Besides, I'd never want to be party reasonsible for an "OOPS" litter if by some freak accident my dogs got loose.

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I always feel sorry for intact males who never get "any" so to speak. I know that with human males it is torture when they are going through a "drought". Hell I am female and I know how much that can suck.
I think it is cruel to let them have those feelings and nothing can be done about it. Rather fix them young and they will never know what they are missing so to speak.

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First off,
You dont think 6 week old Rottweiler puppies are "joyful"? You think wrong!
Second, I can't imagine taking the great breed of a Rottweiler and combining it with that of a great Boxer... they are great breeds SEPERATE, not together. Like others have said, your just asking to bring different medical problems, from the boxers heart, to the cancer/HD of the Rottweiler. And like others have said, whos to say you wouldn't get both the Rottweiler & The boxer's gaurdian temperments, and have on your hands a uncontrolable out of hand dog? You cant select when genetic traits your puppies get.
As for the fact that the dogs "know they are missing out on getting some"... thats about the most immature statement I have ever heard. If they have never expereinced it, then they surley dont know there is something they are missing out on. All my neutered males I've had are content and listen to me, even thou they are "missing out on getting some". If your not breeding your dogs to better the breed weather conformation/hunting/working way then you should spay/neuter your pets. The pounds are full enough with unwanted dogs that will meet a cenceless death because someone thought it would be cool to breed 2 dogs together and not follow thru with finding the puppies good homes.

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Being around boys who have been desexed and one that has not (Owners refuse for the same dumb reasons as most) The boys that are desexed are much happier dogs. With proper care (Watching food, proper activity level kept up) they don't get fat and lazy. My friend's dog JB is a good example for you. 10 years old and would play fetch or Frisbee till he fell over dead, and always steals barry's "Girlfriends" from him. Not fat, not lazy, but a very proud boy! The boy i know that is not neutered suffers constant problems due to that, not to mention if there is a female in heat close in the neighborhood he constantly crys and is stressed. My vet's page has pictures of a pyrometra spay, scroll down to the bottom the pictures are graphic of course.
http://www.centralbirdanimal.com/cbah_surgery.htm

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First off,
As for the fact that the dogs "know they are missing out on getting some"... thats about the most immature statement I have ever heard. If they have never expereinced it, then they surley dont know there is something they are missing out on. All my neutered males I've had are content and listen to me, even thou they are "missing out on getting some". If your not breeding your dogs to better the breed weather conformation/hunting/working way then you should spay/neuter your pets.
:hail: :hail: Thank you! How can they miss something they never developed the hormones to have in the first place. It is more humane in all directions to fix you pets.

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i understand. buster is desexed, he is happy, healthy and very slim, he has a small appetite and a huge amount of energy. i just do relise that desexed dogs can stop making any effort to keep themselves fit. i would hate dragging around my dog seeing it not enjoying it.
however i do like desexed males personalities a lot more than intact males. they arn't as worried about females. these last few weeks of keeping an eye on mac while she's on heat have been like hell. he is crazy allthe time. drives me nuts.
i also uderstand that leaving your females intact leaves them open to pyometra and cervical cancer. but humans face the same problems. i dont want children but i wouldn't let someone remove part of me to prevent cancer

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i understand. buster is desexed, he is happy, healthy and very slim, he has a small appetite and a huge amount of energy. i just do relise that desexed dogs can stop making any effort to keep themselves fit. i would hate dragging around my dog seeing it not enjoying it.
however i do like desexed males personalities a lot more than intact males. they arn't as worried about females. these last few weeks of keeping an eye on mac while she's on heat have been like hell. he is crazy allthe time. drives me nuts.
i also uderstand that leaving your females intact leaves them open to pyometra and cervical cancer. but humans face the same problems. i dont want children but i wouldn't let someone remove part of me to prevent cancer
But what you don't understand is that a female developing mammory cancers and pyometra is much more HIGHER than you developing cancer. Your reasons for not neutering and spaying are BOGUS! And I'm sorry, but they are also ignorant as well. WHY don't you at least get your other male desexed then? Why live like that if you don't have to? I actually feel bad for your dogs.....It's one thing to own one intact animal at a time but you own intact males and females and don't spay/neuter just because and they are all mutts. Maybe some day you will learn your lesson the hard way when your males or females get cancer and die.............maybe then you will be more responsible!

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please. don't be so harsh! my FAMILY owns 4 dogs. one is mine, one is my sisters, one is my mums and they 4th is part of the family. i am 16 years old. the other three arn NOT my dogs. it is up to the owners of these pets to decide whether or not to spay/neuter them.
if i have a male dog, i will desex him. but right now. that isn't my choice.
in the last year i have had to deal with 4 pets dying. don't bring it up. it is not my decision of whether or not the other three dogs are desexed. undestand that.

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please. don't be so harsh! my FAMILY owns 4 dogs. one is mine, one is my sisters, one is my mums and they 4th is part of the family. i am 16 years old. the other three arn NOT my dogs. it is up to the owners of these pets to decide whether or not to spay/neuter them.
if i have a male dog, i will desex him. but right now. that isn't my choice.
in the last year i have had to deal with 4 pets dying. don't bring it up. it is not my decision of whether or not the other three dogs are desexed. undestand that.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to sound harsh, just honest ;) . As a vet tech I saw the worst of what can happen to the dogs who aren't spayed and neutered and that included dying a premature death because of a decision that wasn't made in there best interest. I wish your mum and family would sit down at the computer with you and educate themselves on why it is a must to fix your pet that's all. I'm sorry you lost pets in the past year, that must have been very hard for you. Please, again I am sorry if I seemed harsh, but I only want what is best for your babies :) .

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There was a comment made regarding a human not having a hystorectomy compared to not spaying a bitch. That just just because the poster, not planning to have children, would not have "parts removed" because of that choice.
A woman going through her cycle is NOTHING compared to a dog. A human's cycle is estrogen based. A dog's cycle is progesterone based. A woman goes through her cycle, does not get pregnant, and her body flushes out. A dog goes through her cycle, does not get pregnant, and her uterus goes through the same thing over the next 63 days as if she did get pregnant. Here-in lies the difference.
Canines are unique as they are one of the few animals who's cycles are strictly progesterone based. A dog's progesterone starts to increase as their bodies get ready for ovulation. When the progesterone peaks, that is when they ovulate. That is when you breed - or not. After a un-bred dog goes out of season, their hormones and uterus goes through the exact same thing as it would if there were puppies there. Some bitches seem to get thicker around the middle, get "morning sickness", nipples enlarge, some even get milk after about 55 days post-season. Others adopt stuffed animals and keep them as babies. Every bitch, every time they go into season, goes through this "false pregnancy", though some go through it more seriously than others. The reason is because of progesterone. Dr. Hutchinson is one of the world's leading canine reproduction specialists. The research he has done is incredible. He has found that a pregnant uterus is more healthy than a non-pregnant one. And that basically, every time a bitch goes through a cycle and is not pregnant, it is not healthy for the uterus. This is where the risks of pyo and other things come in.
It has been proven that allowing a bitch to even go through one cycle increases her risks of cancers exponentially. Letting them go through multiple seasons is bordering on cruel, IMO, given the knowledge of what dogs go through both chemically and physically. Given what science has told us about bitches and estrus and post-estrus, a bitch that is not going to be part of a breeding program should be spayed, period. And, with breeding bitches, as soon as they have that last litter, they should be spayed. Given the research that Dr. Hutch has done, allowing a bitch to go through seasons with no intent to breed is not only senseless, it is dangerous.

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Breeding is more than putting two dogs together to have puppies. You, as the breeder, are responsible for adding more puppies into this world which take away from other homeless pets in this world finding homes. How horrible would you feel if you bred a litter of puppies who all had hip problems by the age of 2?
."
Jessie, you took the words right out of my mouth!!!! Each time a litter of puppies is born, it means more puppies in this world. A world that PTS puppies each and every single day. Rescues are full of mixed puppies and pure bred puppies, so unless you have got a really good reason to breed and increase the number of dogs in the world, (like bettering the breed) I don't think that you should breed your dog.
And mixed breeds should Never be bred, there is absolutely no point in that at all.

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There was a comment made regarding a human not having a hystorectomy compared to not spaying a bitch. That just just because the poster, not planning to have children, would not have "parts removed" because of that choice.
A woman going through her cycle is NOTHING compared to a dog. A human's cycle is estrogen based. A dog's cycle is progesterone based. A woman goes through her cycle, does not get pregnant, and her body flushes out. A dog goes through her cycle, does not get pregnant, and her uterus goes through the same thing over the next 63 days as if she did get pregnant. Here-in lies the difference.
Canines are unique as they are one of the few animals who's cycles are strictly progesterone based. A dog's progesterone starts to increase as their bodies get ready for ovulation. When the progesterone peaks, that is when they ovulate. That is when you breed - or not. After a un-bred dog goes out of season, their hormones and uterus goes through the exact same thing as it would if there were puppies there. Some bitches seem to get thicker around the middle, get "morning sickness", nipples enlarge, some even get milk after about 55 days post-season. Others adopt stuffed animals and keep them as babies. Every bitch, every time they go into season, goes through this "false pregnancy", though some go through it more seriously than others. The reason is because of progesterone. Dr. Hutchinson is one of the world's leading canine reproduction specialists. The research he has done is incredible. He has found that a pregnant uterus is more healthy than a non-pregnant one. And that basically, every time a bitch goes through a cycle and is not pregnant, it is not healthy for the uterus. This is where the risks of pyo and other things come in.
It has been proven that allowing a bitch to even go through one cycle increases her risks of cancers exponentially. Letting them go through multiple seasons is bordering on cruel, IMO, given the knowledge of what dogs go through both chemically and physically. Given what science has told us about bitches and estrus and post-estrus, a bitch that is not going to be part of a breeding program should be spayed, period. And, with breeding bitches, as soon as they have that last litter, they should be spayed. Given the research that Dr. Hutch has done, allowing a bitch to go through seasons with no intent to breed is not only senseless, it is dangerous.
:hail: GREAT explanation. I read something very similar years back when I was studying up on pyo before I decided to get into showing and keeping an intact bitch...which still makes me nervous!

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GREAT explanation. I read something very similar years back when I was studying up on pyo before I decided to get into showing and keeping an intact bitch...which still makes me nervous!
I'll second this! That was a fantastic explanation of the canine cycle. And I'm right with you showpug- if it wasn't for the fact that my girl is show/breeding dog, I'd spay her immediately. And as soon as she's done showing and I don't want another litter out of her- she WILL be spayed.

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My vet told me to wait to get both my dogs fixed until they are two because hormones will make them fill out more? I don't know if that's true or not. It seems true seeing as you can tell the different between a stallion and gelding in horses normally. Both my boys are 9 months old right now and I'm on the fence about waiting to fix them or not. Though in my head I feel like I would be taking away a part of them my logical side is telling that side to shut up and be reasonable. They are going to get fixed. Im just confused on when to do it.
I would neuter them before 2, the hormones start to rage at 12-18 months and boys can get quite pushy. This could work against you if they get pushy with each other. If they ever get into a serious fight you may have a hard time keeping them together after that.

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I believe that xrossbreeding to improve certain traits is fine BUT mx breeding for money is selfish and dumb. For example, the American Pull Dog (basically a Bandog) was created to pull better than any other breed. Crossbreeding a Dogo/Greyhound gives you a faster hog hunter. Crossbreeding a Siberian Husky to a Greyhound gives you a faster sled dog. The idea behind the original Labradoodle was to create a non-shedding assistance dog. The cane corso was created to create what the Neo once was. Crossbreeding a Staffy Bull to a Patterdale gives you a tenacious rodent hunter with enough mass to take on something as big as a coon. A buddy of mine in Brazil is crossbreeding Filas to other breeds (I forget what ones) to create a better farm dog, one that suites his needs better than any purebred. Another buddy of mine is creating the American Bull Molosser, a guarding breed that is more dog-friendly than most guard breeds and is improving on other things that a single purebred simply doesnt provide in his eyes.
IMO if you have a purpose for the cross like the examples I just gave then by all means, try it out as long as you do it responsibly and have a plan for the puppies that will result. If your ideal dog wont be created for a few generations then you will need to know what you are going to do with the pus from the generations prior to the ideal litter that you wont be using in your breeding program.

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Their are many livestock owners with many years of knowledge.
That do cross bred tested working health certified Prys and Akbash etc.
I am not for it but if the breeder knows the breeds as a expert before they cross breed okay it has worked out well..
Most mutts do NOT have pedigrees and pedigrees are not only for show.
They are to track inherited health and comformation issues.
So I am for in general not for designer breeds .
When so many mutts get put to sleep due to lack of homes.
Plus many of these mutt are very sick due to the same backyard breeding that plagues purebred breeders.
Breeding untested uncertified un proven dogs be it mutt or pure leads to issues not matter the mixes.
I do NOT require my intact potential breeding dogs to TITLE in show.
I do require all to be health tested at min OFA OVC or PH for Hips.
To be temperament certified depending on what they are doing as work.
And to be rated in a show ring one time over a age of a year under a breed qualified judge.
Showing is not just about "titling" it is about learning about proper bite, and comformation that can lead to serious health issues .
One dog with slight Easty westy may be a great working dog .
But if bred to another with a LINE of these issue can lead to Serious Elbow dyplasia.
Going to shows is not just about the Ribbons and ego or title.
It is one of many steps all breeders should do at one time or another to learn from each other.
Ive learned from co breeders I met at shows or trials or tests.
Than any book online or VET.
My 2 cents any way.
SHowing or any work _is part of networking.
If you are NOT networked you should NOT breed.

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I believe that xrossbreeding to improve certain traits is fine BUT mx breeding for money is selfish and dumb. For example, the American Pull Dog (basically a Bandog) was created to pull better than any other breed.
IMO if you have a purpose for the cross like the examples I just gave then by all means, try it out as long as you do it responsibly and have a plan for the puppies that will result. If your ideal dog wont be created for a few generations then you will need to know what you are going to do with the pus from the generations prior to the ideal litter that you wont be using in your breeding program.
Pulling what, exactly?
There are many draft breeds. And weight pulling is barely admirable for new breeding.