ShepherdsQuestion:I've always liked German Shepherds: the well-raised, well-bred ones are amazing. However, as mentioned plenty of times on this board, there are many that are plagued with health problems, particularly with their hips. And, generally, show lines are no exception. So, where is the best place to get a German Shepherd? A farm that raises even-tempered, health-screened German Shepherds? That's where my German Shepherd puppyfrom about 12 years ago came from. We're not planning on getting another dog lol, it was just a recent thought I had. Answer: My friend had a GSD named Max once. A lady had starved him, one more day and he would have been dead. I went with them to save him from her and he could barely walk. Poor guy. They are very sweet, though. And they shed A LOT. Definetly not right for a person with allergies. Max, the GSD my friend had owned at one time went to a new home because her dad was having trouble with him because her dad had allergies and now the new 'owner' wants to get rid of him again because she apparently cant control him :( :rolleyes: that was one of the things they asked her if she could do when they were asking her about how she lived and stuff! :mad: grrr. Poor dog. You have to do tons of research and make sure you find a good reputabale better. Yes, a farm that raises even tempered, health screened pups. Visit and check out their dogs, view the pedigree, papers, and health certificates for their dogs. Also check out where they live. Where you get your dog is important. Oh, and yes they are definetly prone to hip problems, Max had slight hip problems too. Answer: Don't rule out adopting a dog from a local breed rescue group. My Dakota is a rescue and she is the sweetest, most gentle dog I have ever known. I adopted her at the age of six months and immidiately started her on a glucosamine suppliment, and exercising her every day (the ammount and nature of the exercise is relitive to your dogs level of development. Growing puppies who's joints aren't fully formed need to take it easier than full grown dogs.) The vet says her hips are great, partly because I got an early start on building her up. Granted, many rescue dogs come with a troubled past and have deamons that need to be overcome, but they can in many cases make the most affectionate pets because they recognize you as their saviour. Here are a couple pics of my girl. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/Engineer6744/Dakota/kodiebed.jpg http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/Engineer6744/steamteam006.jpg Answer: I had a shepherd x growing up. Wonderful wonderful dog. His name was Shack. :) I wish I had some pictures of him scanned. Maybe I can find some soon when I get back home to show everyone. Unfortunately he had to be put down after two hip surgeries due to HD. It's so common in the breed. Answer: Hip problems are much too common in the breed :( It's unfortunate, and infuriating. Road Dog, Dakota looks like such a sweet girl :) Oh yes, I forgot to mention rescue lol. Answer: I've loved GSDs since I can remember . . . but, I don't know that I'd get one from a modern breeder. Probably the only way other than rescue I'd consider would be if I could find an old farmer who had been breeding his own farm dogs from his own lines. If I could find that, I wouldn't be too worried about the testing. I'd be looking for one that was the right size - by the old standards, not the huge dogs we see now, somewhere around 60-70 pounds. None of the modern sloping hindquarters. Just a good, solid big butt with a bouncy step and an even run. My first was like that, and he was a marvel. Lived to be 16, never had any health problems at all, wonderful temperament, superb guardian, a joy to live with. Bimmer is very similar to him, but is a mix. Bear was an excellent Shepherd, too, but he was a GSD/Akita mix. Answer: GSD's rank 39th for hip dsyplasia, at 19% of those screened by the OFA. Breeds ahead of them, most French and English bulldogs, mastiffs, chows, golden retrievers, Chesapekes, Cane corso's, Filas, some spaniels and pugs. Obviously there are more, you can go their website and check it out. www.offa.org I'd say their stats are the most realistic of all of the breeds since they are the most tested, some breeds aren't very heavily tested and have lots of good dogs that go untested and lots of bad ones too, so their scores aren't always representative of the breed IMO. I would be looking for working line breeders that test and title their breeding stock. Do your homework, do your homework, do your homework. I can't stress this enough. There are lots of breeders that aren't what they seem when it comes to GSD's. Even if you think you found exactly what you want, keep looking and compare, evenutally you'll know what's right and what's a load of BS. Answer: I have always lived with gsd's, my dad had one as a service dog when he ws in korea, and also had them growing up, so it was natural that we always had gsd's. I've had quite a few over the years, 4 of my own when I moved out on my own,,none of them had/have hip or elbow problems, thank goodness. my first one came from a woman who ws breeding DDR dogs (got me hooked on them) 2nd from an am line breeder (a HUGE mutant of a dog *vbg), the 3rd is a rescue I got at 12 weeks, (czech) who is now 11, with pretty bad knees, a couple of surgeries for it, but now loaded with arthritis,,my 4th, is a ddr dog, who will be 10 on 12/26,,his only health issue was a blown anal gland a couple years ago. I've been very very lucky to have had some wonderful dogs thus far, with minimal health problems. Diane Answer: Good thoughts! Thanks everyone. Answer: Personally, I would go for a dog outside the US such as a GSD with Chekz or German lines. I am not a fan of the American bred Shepards that you see in the AKC show ring. I think there back ends look deformed IMO. There are some great breeders right her in the US however that breed these chekz and German lines. Most K-9 dogs for police work are imported in from outside the US because of the better quality of there dogs. Answer: Personally, I would go for a dog outside the US such as a GSD with Chekz or German lines. I am not a fan of the American bred Shepards that you see in the AKC show ring. I think there back ends look deformed IMO. There are some great breeders right her in the US however that breed these chekz and German lines. Most K-9 dogs for police work are imported in from outside the US because of the better quality of there dogs. 100% agree Answer: I love them too !! Do the Monks at Skete still sell them ??? they must be fabulous ! All German lines and well socialized . Answer: Personally, I would go for a dog outside the US such as a GSD with Chekz or German lines. I am not a fan of the American bred Shepards that you see in the AKC show ring. I think there back ends look deformed IMO. There are some great breeders right her in the US however that breed these chekz and German lines. Most K-9 dogs for police work are imported in from outside the US because of the better quality of there dogs. Anyone thinking of getting a GSD must research the line types before they decide. To point someone to Czech lines without a HUGE disclaimer of what these dogs can be like is doing a disservice to the breed. There are more and more Czech and DDR GSDs showing up in rescues and shelters because many are not ready for the drive and energy level of working line dogs. Anyone leaning to a working line GSD needs to spend a lot of time talking to breeders while being honest about their intentions with the pup. Of course every litter has lower drive/energy pups and so it is quite possible to get a pet workingline but PLEASE do a lot of research into breeders before buying a GSD of any line. Answer: Anyone thinking of getting a GSD must research the line types before they decide. To point someone to Czech lines without a HUGE disclaimer of what these dogs can be like is doing a disservice to the breed. There are more and more Czech and DDR GSDs showing up in rescues and shelters because many are not ready for the drive and energy level of working line dogs. Anyone leaning to a working line GSD needs to spend a lot of time talking to breeders while being honest about their intentions with the pup. Of course every litter has lower drive/energy pups and so it is quite possible to get a pet workingline but PLEASE do a lot of research into breeders before buying a GSD of any line. So very true. Answer: So basically you would rather an American bred AKC low to ground back end show dog bred GSD than a GSD who can do its job :D ? I grew up with GSD's from German working lines and they were great all around family dogs. They needed a good dose of excercise and training but so doesn't any herding breed or most dogs for that matter. Your talking to someone who owns a 67 lb ACD who would be cujo in the wrong hands and protects better than any of the the GSD's I have owned. However, I do agree with you on RESEARCH it is a must before you invest in any breed of dog :) . Answer: The research part is what I agree to. Research and learn all you can, and then make an informed decision. Answer: So basically you would rather an American bred AKC low to ground back end show dog bred GSD than a GSD who can do its job :D ? I grew up with GSD's from German working lines and they were great all around family dogs. They needed a good dose of excercise and training but so doesn't any herding breed or most dogs for that matter. Your talking to someone who owns a 67 lb ACD who would be cujo in the wrong hands and protects better than any of the the GSD's I have owned. However, I do agree with you on RESEARCH it is a must before you invest in any breed of dog :) . We're not talking about my preferences, you pointed someone directly to Czech lines and I wanted to point out that these dogs are ending up in shelters because people like the way they look and don't research the needs of a working line dog. Have you seen all the black sables out there? Have you seen how many breeders are now breeding working line dogs with out titling or working them first? I've got my fingers crossed about a young pup that was sold to a family here who had NO clue what a Czech/DDR pup meant to their family. I'm saying it's irresposible to automatically say that American lines are **** and everyone should get a working line dog without discussion of the needed exercise, outlet for drive and need for intense research of breeders. Answer: Anyone thinking of getting a GSD must research the line types before they decide. To point someone to Czech lines without a HUGE disclaimer of what these dogs can be like is doing a disservice to the breed. There are more and more Czech and DDR GSDs showing up in rescues and shelters because many are not ready for the drive and energy level of working line dogs. Anyone leaning to a working line GSD needs to spend a lot of time talking to breeders while being honest about their intentions with the pup. Of course every litter has lower drive/energy pups and so it is quite possible to get a pet workingline but PLEASE do a lot of research into breeders before buying a GSD of any line. Amen! My Gabbi is just that. Granted she is a back yard breeding, but both parents have their papers, not titled. She is one bundle o'drive and energy. I had no idea what I was getting into. She is my first and last puppy. I am sticking with the adults. Training training training. I have a schutzhund trainer right now, I doubt my Gabbs is schutzhund material but I'll take the obedience that goes with it. There are working line dogs out there that do not have that high drive, you just have to look and ask the breeders for it. Biz is one of them and has that great Slovakian look. I don't like the Amercian show line GSD either. Answer: I agree with Barb, Living with DDR & czech dogs is NOT most times, for the faint of heart. As for the American lined dogs, we've most likely hashed this out before. While some may not like the appearance of extreme angulation (what your seeing in alot of the am show dogs), and I'm one of them, a GSD needs SOME rear angulation for movement. Again, while maybe not appealing, it certainly is a "myth" that the more angulation means a dog is dysplastic. Certainly one does not have to go outside the US for a good dog. Most dogs imported are pretty pricey, and think about it, "they" aren't selling their really good dogs, they keep them for themselves. (certainly not to say you can't get a good dog imported!) I would absolutely never ever suggest to someone to get a Czech dog if they were unexperienced, looking for a pet only. I have a czech female who is almost 12, she has rotten knees with a couple of surgeries behind her, I wouldn't trade her for all the tea in china, she has been the best dog I'll ever own. BUT, at this age, this dog still "flits" when she moves, she NEVER has walked a day in her life! She is constantly ON THE MOVE, and she better have something to do or she'll find something to do not always good. A normal "Joe T Public", would have 1. gotten rid of her by now, 2. gone bonkers trying to keep her busy. Sure she's first and foremost my "cherished pet",,but she also has had a life that's kept her busy, both physically and mentally. (I can afford that luxury of time) My DDR dog is probably a little out of the norm, he has been the easiest self trainer I've ever had the pleasure of living with, couch it all day OR run the boston marathon all day, he's a go with the flow dog, at 10, he shows no signs of slowing down either. Wonderful dogs in the right hands. In the end, a GOOD GSD is a GOOD GSD, doesn't matter if it's purple, green from the us , germany or the moon, IF you can find a good breeder who's breeding sound/healthy dogs, then you've got it made. Diane Answer: I'm a little late here, but here's one place to get a good GSD. http://www.leerburg.com/litters.htm If you're looking for another breeder, they don't mind you asking about it on their forums. http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php Answer: I'm not real impressed with Leerburg but to each his own. :)) Diane Answer: But he sure breeds nice dogs. Answer: I personally have had two dogs from there, both very good workers and companions. Just recently worked with a man that had a Leerburg dog, competed in nationals with him a few years ago, used him as a stud and has a phenomenal son out of him that just got his SchH I. Very clear, very driven and very focused. And like black puppy said, there are other breeders on the board that can help you find the dog you need. Answer: If you are into a dog that is not as "bounce off the wall" as a working line dog but one that still has drive and a degree of working ability, you can also look at the German show lines. Good breeders of these dogs will title them, compete with them, and get hips and elbows certified. This is what my dog Gunnar is. He's been a great dog for us, he's happy to be mellow around the house but when its time to train or play, he will go for hours if you let him. The main point is, which has already been mentioned, is that you need to research your breeder. There are still American bred dogs who are healthy and stable in temprament, just as there are working line dogs who are going to have health issues or bad tempraments. Answer: I don't think the folks on Leerburg are pro working dogs as pets. I can tell you it's hard and again, you must train and find them a job or outlet for all that drive and energy. Gabbi's parents are working dogs and she is loaded full of drive. I wish I had started way earlier w/her training. She's such a sweetie and I just want to do right by her, and not having an outlet for her energy, would drive us both crazy. Total high maintenance. Don't get me wrong, I love her and she's my dream dog, but I had no idea what a high calibur dog she would be. We're a work in progress. Answer: http://www.leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/121657/Board/134/page/1/fpart/all/gonew/1#UNREAD Here's a thread at leerburg discussing this very topic Answer: Anyone thinking of getting a GSD must research the line types before they decide. To point someone to Czech lines without a HUGE disclaimer of what these dogs can be like is doing a disservice to the breed. There are more and more Czech and DDR GSDs showing up in rescues and shelters because many are not ready for the drive and energy level of working line dogs. Anyone leaning to a working line GSD needs to spend a lot of time talking to breeders while being honest about their intentions with the pup. Of course every litter has lower drive/energy pups and so it is quite possible to get a pet workingline but PLEASE do a lot of research into breeders before buying a GSD of any line. I agree!!! I have a west german working line and he is a handful. DDR/Czech, IMO, are a notch up from WGW dog. Ryot is something and if not controlled can be hazzardous. They need extensive training and have alot of drive. I swear I think Ryot is part Mali, lol. :p . Just jumping and bouncing and barking (to get whatever is in my hand). American breed dogs are NOT bad and I have seen nice ones. They tend to be more relaxed and more fit for the "family" scene. YOU have to find what YOU like and people who think AMerican see sloped backs. Its just what people are used to seeing, but you CAN find the less extreme american lines. Just like German Showline. They are known for roach-backs but that doesnt mean ALL GSL's have roached backs. Just go out and look for what YOU like. :D Answer: So, where is the best place to get a German Shepherd? A farm that raises even-tempered, health-screened German Shepherds? That's where my German Shepherd puppyfrom about 12 years ago came from. Personally I use the same basic criteria for finding a GSD as I do for finding any breed. I first look for the style I like (most breeds come in "show" lines and "working" lines, which can be vastly different in looks, attitude, intelligence and instinct). Then I look for a breeder that produces what I like. I want a breeder who proves their dogs by showing/working in the venues I prefer (when it comes to the GSD, I want to know that the parents of my dog have the instinct, intelligence and athletic ability to be working dogs). I want a breeder who health tests their dogs. I want a breeder who does limited breeding, not kicking out multitudes of puppies for whatever lousy reason they choose. I want a breeder who is NOT in it primarily for the money (these last two completely disqualify leerburg kennels, of course). I want a breeder whose dogs whelp in the home and the puppies are raised within the home, being exposed to the hustle and bustle of a household - including children and various noises. I want a breeder who starts socialization at a young age and who knows the value of good socialization (also disqualifies leerburg). It's difficult here in Alaska to get my kind of shepherd because nearly all the breeders are breeding for AKC conformation shows. I don't like those lines. While I value proper angulation, over-angulation is a huge fault to me. And shepherds aren't supposed to have long necks and soft teddy-bear coats and thick tails. Not all American lines are like that, of course- my Trick is half German, half American (working) lines and she's been the most fantastic dog. People tend to think of hip dysplasia with the German shepherds, but much of what is assumed to be hip dysplasia is degenerative myelopathy or other problems. My Mom's dog has cauda equina, but to look at him (he's 11 1/2) you would assume he has hip dysplasia. His hips looked great under x-ray, however. My first full shepherd (born 1988) had degenerative myelopathy and I had him put down at 11 1/2 when he could no longer control his bowel movements. But Trick turned ten last May and - while showing some age - is still active and runs and jumps like crazy. Anyway .. as far as finding a breeder .. you research and research and ask for references and check out information given you by breeders and then you make your decision. It doesn't matter what breed. You never buy online without really delving deeply into what you're getting and who you're buying from. On the surface so many can look good .. I got a beautiful German/Belgian lines GSD whose grandfather was 15X a Schutzhund III .. and she was a neurotic mess, most likely from lack of early socialization. Trick was purchased from a breeder in NJ (I'm in Alaska) and has been the perfect GSD for me. Two of my chows came from out of state - the last one from Ontario, Canada. Both are great dogs. It looks like I have a puppy coming in January .. another GSD .. :D She's German lines, all schutzhund background, going to be a handful but I have a pack of girls here who need a challenge! *LOL* Melanie and the gang in Alaska Answer: ewwww melanie! Do tell you lucky thing getting another gsd! Congrats on the new arrival! and hey you don't have many gsd breeders up there in that cold climate? *vbg* diane Answer: It looks like I have a puppy coming in January .. another GSD .. :D She's German lines, all schutzhund background, going to be a handful but I have a pack of girls here who need a challenge! *LOL* Oh Oh Oh OH!! Do tell more!!!! Answer: Hey Jynx and Barb - I can't give all the details yet as things are still in negotiation. She's about six weeks old and black and tan. She has Mink von haus Whittfield as her grandfather on her sire's side, and her dam's father has been the Hungarian National (working) Champion. I know I said the pup was German lines, but there are some Czech lines in there too. I know it's crazy to get another dog when I already have four, but five is generally my limit .. *G* .. and with three chows and just one GSD, things are definitely NOT balanced! Besides, my young chow needs a buddy to play with. The other dogs are 9, 10 and 15 years old and they can only put up with playing with the "monster" for so long. (See how well I justify a fifth dog??? *LOL*) It will be fun to work with her. She will not only be trained basics and tricks and all that, but she'll learn service dog behaviors so that if I end up needing that she'll be ready. I could have used a service-trained dog when I got really sick .. Trick is good but she wasn't trained to turn off lights! I'll post more when she gets here, of course! Melanie and the gang Answer: I have a Mink grandaughter, she's soon to be 7 now, on Dec 31st actually. She's awsome, if she wouldn't have had pyometra at age 2 breeding her to a the right stud would have probably given us some great progeny. Tons of prey, good defense, fairly strong female, very stable temperment and never wants to quit. Besides some of the gray coming in around her mouth most people think she's a year or two old by the way she looks at first and acts. Excellent, Excellent tracker as well, very natural. Answer: I have never had a GSD but I just adopted a GSD X 3 weeks ago and she is such a love.. She is beautiful and knows it too.. Just wish the biting would stop, but shes a puppy.. I have read that they are excellent family pets and love to please their owners... GSD RULE!! :lol-sign: Answer: melanie,,ewwww she sounds promising!!!! and I can certainly understand wanting another,,I always want another dog, my youngest now is 5 years old, and I have a house full of cripples *vbg*.. You'll love the czech blood, my czech girl will be 12 in April, unfortunately she has severe arthritis in her knees, :(( but she is still crazy and runs the roost around here..I swear they are some tough dogs , this one has no pain threshold, which can be good and bad , but sooooooo much fun to work with! Keep us updated! diane Answer: Melanie, sounds like she's going to be a great addition and I can't wait to hear more about her, and of course see pictures!!!! Answer: whatszmatter - good to hear about your dog and the nice solid temperament! What you describe in yours is what I'm looking for in mine, so hopefully I get what you got! *L* Jynx .. there's always room for another puppy, right? *LOL* I've never had a GSD with Czech lines .. Tori had some Belgian lines in her, Trick is German/American working lines. So this will be a bit new to me, but I always like a good challenge. I prefer dogs with a lot of "OOMPH" to them, you know? fillyone - she won't be here until mid-January, I think. I'll be sure to take lots of photos! Unfortunately the latch on the battery compartment of my camera just broke yesterday, so I need to decide if I want to buy another cheapie or look at what I REALLY want in a camera (like $1000 on up .. *L*). Melanie and the gang in Alaska Answer: well you'll certainly get "oomph",,and I think the girlz have MORE oomph than the boys..*vbg* diane Answer: Well, I am a pet owner. I know nothing of bloodlines and pedigrees, but that's fine with me because %90 of the dogs I consider bringing into my life are from unknown background. Due to the popularity of GSD's the shelters are bursting with them. I volounteer with an Orange County based rescue group and we almost always have close to 40 GSD's in our care at any one time. Sadly there are dozens whom we can not save in time and they meet their end via the needle having spent their final days in concrete and steel cages. All my dogs have been rescues, and will continue to be so. For the casual pet owner, escpcailly a first time GSD owner I think adopting an older puppy or adult dog from a rescue can be a great was to introduce yourself to the breed and gain experiance. Most the dogs that come through our doors are a year or more old and one can get a really good feel for their personalities and temperments. We match over 300 GSD's a year with suitable homes. Forsomebody who is looking for a dog who will strictly be a family pet, I think that going to a rescue and choosing the GSD that fits your particular lifestyle is a viable means of aquiring a dog. The is my rescue girl, I adopted her at 6 months of age and she's been the best dog I've ever owned. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/Engineer6744/Dakota/Harbor004.jpg http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/Engineer6744/Dakota/Kodie002.jpg Answer: she is gorgeous! I have a couple of rescues, one gsd and one aussie so I am all for rescuing as well , and just for the reasons you stated, alot of newbie GSD owners have no idea just how hard it can be raising a gsd puppy, to get an older dog is to "see what you get", and saving a life at the same time.. Road, are you a member of the gsd board? I ask only because since you are working at a shelter/rescue, this board has a HUGE rescue section, where you can post dogs in need, and alot frequent the board looking for a dog as well. The url is http://www.germanshepherds.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php Diane Answer: No, I'm not a member there, but it looks like a good spot! I think I'll sign up! :) Answer: Well, I am a pet owner. I know nothing of bloodlines and pedigrees, but that's fine with me because %90 of the dogs I consider bringing into my life are from unknown background. Due to the popularity of GSD's the shelters are bursting with them. I volounteer with an Orange County based rescue group and we almost always have close to 40 GSD's in our care at any one time. Sadly there are dozens whom we can not save in time and they meet their end via the needle having spent their final days in concrete and steel cages. All my dogs have been rescues, and will continue to be so. For the casual pet owner, escpcailly a first time GSD owner I think adopting an older puppy or adult dog from a rescue can be a great was to introduce yourself to the breed and gain experiance. Most the dogs that come through our doors are a year or more old and one can get a really good feel for their personalities and temperments. We match over 300 GSD's a year with suitable homes. Forsomebody who is looking for a dog who will strictly be a family pet, I think that going to a rescue and choosing the GSD that fits your particular lifestyle is a viable means of aquiring a dog. The is my rescue girl, I adopted her at 6 months of age and she's been the best dog I've ever owned. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/Engineer6744/Dakota/Harbor004.jpg http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d8/Engineer6744/Dakota/Kodie002.jpg I can't agree MORE, Road Dog! With the exception of my first Shep, who was given to me by my grandmother lo these many many years ago, all of my Sheps have been rescues - usually as adults - and they were all perfect :) Answer: Great looking dog !!!! Yes !! Join Chaz !! I didn't think you could post unless you joined ! Answer: LOL! I am a member of Chaz, she was referring to an all GSD forum. Answer: Dakota really looks like a gem!! I also love german shepherds, their loyalty, seriousness in doing certain tasks but can also be loving and a little playful too. I just got a dog, she is a bit still of a mystery- small at 20 lbs but it looks like she may have some shepherd in her, mixed with some type of small dog, and maybe sheltie or border collie. I had to take her to the vet for a bath today and someone there said she reminds them of having gsd in her. Im thinking that's what I was thinking, although she definately has a good amount of some type of collie dog, there';s something very gsd about her- the vet said that's possible, seems odd to me, but hey, still possible! |
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