Mixing Dog FoodsQuestion:Mixing Dog Foods I was thinking about the thread where I mentioned that I mix two types of food for Tosca (Eagle and NB). There was some discussion on whether it could be a bad thing and I took it very seriously because I really see a number of people on this board who have plenty to teach me. Once I got past my self-rationalization stage, I started to think about ways in which this can be a problem. For example, could a dog get too much of one nutrient or not enough of another by doing this, as different companies create their foods for balance? So I used different options to do a small calculation. First, I add the assumption that no premium foods, or at least the premium foods I am using have nutrients in the bag that are considered detrimental to dogs. With that assumption in mind, here are some examples. For example: Omega 3, guaranteed analysis. If I were to do a 50-50 mix of two foods (Food A and Food B) and Food A in the guaranteed analysis had .06 % and Food B in the guaranteed analysis had .05 % then: A 50-50 Mixture of Foods A and B would have Tosca mathematically ingesting on average .055% Omega 3. This would be less than the guaranteed analysis in Food A This would be more than the guaranteed analaysis in Food B. Now, if I were to feed strictly Food A, she would not be getting too much Omega 3, if it were in the future determined that too much Omega 3 is bad. If however I were to feed strictly Food B, she also would not be getting too little of Omega 3 in her food. Next, I started think of food nutrients, such as herbs, fruits, veggies. As a small example I will use Alfalfa: If Food A lists Alfalfa as the 12th ingredient and Food B has no Alfalfa, then : A 50-50 mixture of A and B would have Tosca ingesting 50% of the Alfalfa she would be ingesting if she ate strictly Food A. Therefore she could not be "Over Alfalfaed".If I were to feed strictly Food B, she would get no Alfalfa. The same would hold true if I were to substitute things like carrots or potatoes. My line of thinking here is a mixture of two premium foods can never yield more than the value or percentage of any nutrient in either of the two foods. Please discuss this with me as I am not without the realization that I might be missing something here. Answer: I agree completely. BTW--I like "Over-alfalfaed" LOL Answer: Honestly, I don't know the answer. My question would be, did you mix the food as 50% by volume (1/2 cup to 1/2 cup) or by weight? If you did it by volume, that may mess things up as I believe the nutrient's are listed by weight. So... If a dog needs, say, eight units of Vitamin A, and Food 1 provides eight units per cup, and food two provides eight units per 1/2 cup (it may be more nutrient dense, and supposed to be fed in smaller amounts). You then mix 1/2 cup and 1/2 cup... and your dog is getting 12 units suddenly. I really have no idea. That's just what I was thinking. Answer: Whoa. Love your horse. Ok, so what if both brands recommend the same feeding amounts e.g 2-4 cups. Do you think that levels out the concern? Answer: It's not as much about things like essential fatty acids or irrelevant ingredients such as fruits and veggies. It's about minerals and vitamins, which are required by the body in specific amounts and ratios that interact with each other. If these ratios are skewed, you might find yourself dealing with health issues as serious as orthopedic problems. Within a specific food these ratios are taken into consideration, depending on the feeding amount, kibble size and density etc. Within a certain line of products this is not as much of a concern (e.g. mixing California Natural Chicken & Rice Adult & Puppy food to elevate the level of protein and fat compared to feeding the Adult food only), but I don't see any benefits in mixing different brands of food, especially long-term. Why purposely destroy a carefully planned approach to nutrition by mixing? Answer: I used the examples as just examples with the assumption that the same holds true for the vitamin values in two different premium foods. That is, as fed, you cannot exceed the amount per feeding beyond the amount that is in the cat food with the highest amount of that nutrient where the recommended feeding amount of the two foods is otherwise equal. However, the density question is a really good point. It brings me back to the question Boston brought up. Volume vs. weight. Answer: Whoa. Love your horse. Thank you:D He's a pretty wonderful guy! Within a certain line of products this is not as much of a concern (e.g. mixing California Natural Chicken & Rice Adult & Puppy food to elevate the level of protein and fat compared to feeding the Adult food only) Now you are broaching on the reason I've been wondering about this topic. Meg is on adult Innova right now; I've wondered about mixing in some Evo to up the protein a bit. So you are saying that within a brand it shouldn't be an issue? Answer: Volume vs. weight is indeed an important factor. It's always better to compare kibble by nutritional density, in kcal per pound or kilogram. Answer: I was just thinking about this subject today actually. What if you are mixing two different brands, but one of the brands and foods fed is raw instead of kibble? Answer: I don't know. This whole subject is kind of subjective I think. If I could find a study on the mixing of foods I might feel secure in either direction. I suppose since I can't, I should just give up the Eagle Pack fetish I have, but I know Bob will jump on me, but I just don't know for sure if I think Natural Balance by itself is the very BEST I can do for my dog. I can say she loves it though. The NB is for her. The Eagle is for me. Can you relate? Answer: Mixing Dog Foods I was thinking about the thread where I mentioned that I mix two types of food for Tosca (Eagle and NB). There was some discussion on whether it could be a bad thing and I took it very seriously because I really see a number of people on this board who have plenty to teach me. Once I got past my self-rationalization stage, I started to think about ways in which this can be a problem. For example, could a dog get too much of one nutrient or not enough of another by doing this, as different companies create their foods for balance? So I used different options to do a small calculation. First, I add the assumption that no premium foods, or at least the premium foods I am using have nutrients in the bag that are considered detrimental to dogs. With that assumption in mind, here are some examples. For example: Omega 3, guaranteed analysis. If I were to do a 50-50 mix of two foods (Food A and Food B) and Food A in the guaranteed analysis had .06 % and Food B in the guaranteed analysis had .05 % then: A 50-50 Mixture of Foods A and B would have Tosca mathematically ingesting on average .055% Omega 3. This would be less than the guaranteed analysis in Food A This would be more than the guaranteed analaysis in Food B. Now, if I were to feed strictly Food A, she would not be getting too much Omega 3, if it were in the future determined that too much Omega 3 is bad. If however I were to feed strictly Food B, she also would not be getting too little of Omega 3 in her food. Next, I started think of food nutrients, such as herbs, fruits, veggies. As a small example I will use Alfalfa: If Food A lists Alfalfa as the 12th ingredient and Food B has no Alfalfa, then : A 50-50 mixture of A and B would have Tosca ingesting 50% of the Alfalfa she would be ingesting if she ate strictly Food A. Therefore she could not be "Over Alfalfaed".If I were to feed strictly Food B, she would get no Alfalfa. The same would hold true if I were to substitute things like carrots or potatoes. My line of thinking here is a mixture of two premium foods can never yield more than the value or percentage of any nutrient in either of the two foods. Please discuss this with me as I am not without the realization that I might be missing something here. You are exactly right in my opinion and I thought the same thing when I read that too. If you mix 2 foods you are averaging their contents. If one food has too much of something and the 2nd food does not , then if you feed only the first one of them it's too much of that ingredient.... I mean, it's not rocket science. Answer: It's not as much about things like essential fatty acids or irrelevant ingredients such as fruits and veggies. It's about minerals and vitamins, which are required by the body in specific amounts and ratios that interact with each other. If these ratios are skewed, you might find yourself dealing with health issues as serious as orthopedic problems. Within a specific food these ratios are taken into consideration, depending on the feeding amount, kibble size and density etc. Within a certain line of products this is not as much of a concern (e.g. mixing California Natural Chicken & Rice Adult & Puppy food to elevate the level of protein and fat compared to feeding the Adult food only), but I don't see any benefits in mixing different brands of food, especially long-term. Why purposely destroy a carefully planned approach to nutrition by mixing? The same averaging rule would apply whether it was ingredients or minerals and vitamins... If both foods have a normal amount of nutrients , let's say X number of grams of Vitamin E, and you mix them, then a serving of the mix would have X grams of Vitamin E. If one food had 2X grams ( twice the amount of E as "normal" ) and you mixed it with the 1X food, then a serving would have 1 1/2 X. You could never get anymore of a nutrient than either food had by itself. The same would apply to a too low level of nutrient. The mix would always be better than eating the low food by itself........ Answer: I agree with Mordy--using n-3 fatty acids as your example is kind of skewed. It would be nearly impossible to get a dog to overdose on long chain polyunsaturated fatty acids (especially omega 3) from dog food. I'm still not sure about the food mixing things. I can't say that I agree with either ToscasMom's or Bobsk8's arguments, but I don't have one of my own to dispute them. http://www.greatdanelady.com/articles/do_not_mix_dog_food_brands.htm Answer: The same averaging rule would apply whether it was ingredients or minerals and vitamins... If both foods have a normal amount of nutrients , let's say X number of grams of Vitamin E, and you mix them, then a serving of the mix would have X grams of Vitamin E. If one food had 2X grams ( twice the amount of E as "normal" ) and you mixed it with the 1X food, then a serving would have 1 1/2 X. You could never get anymore of a nutrient than either food had by itself. The same would apply to a too low level of nutrient. The mix would always be better than eating the low food by itself........ Again, I agree completely. Answer: I'm still trying to work the volume vs. weight thing out in my head. If you consider it, it could be an issue except that if you go on As-Fed (I THINK that's the right term), you have to assume that each day, the dog is getting the guaranteed analysis percentages on the bag. So at least in theory, if both foods recommend 2-4 cups a day, then splitting them fifty fifty can't yield an OD of anything. At least in theory or at least mathematically. The question is, does this translate into practice? Answer: I just noticed your link Herschel. Thanks. Obviously this lady knows what she's talking about if I take her background into consideration--even if she's an Eagle pusher. lol. The problem I have is I need to know how this can happen. I see opinions but all I really want is some valid facts as to how this could happen, because statistically it doesn't seem to be so. I know I'm being from Missouri here, but I like to see proofs otherwise I am looking at a theory. Kind of like the arguments against evolution. lol I haven't read her Guide yet. Will do. Maybe I can find more there. I used Omega 3 because it was easy off the bags. I could have just as easily used something else. Ok here's my next question. If you wanted to feed Eagle Pack and your dog wasn't so hot about the taste, kind of ate it but not with much gusto, and if your other food in the mix were NB and the dog loved the taste but you weren't too sure it was the best you could do for her at her age, and your dog seems to like Canadae all right, and Innova was not an option, Would you go with the Canidae or the Natural Balance (ultra premium)? Bob I already know your answer. lol. Answer: I'm in a tough spot. We were feeding Canidae and loved the results. But after 4 months of it, our dog decided he wanted a change. We switched to Innova Adult and it killed his coat (rough, dry, and dull) and now he doesn't like the taste of it. We're in the process of switching back to Canidae, which he enjoys again, but we're not sure if it's going to last. If he gets picky again, we're going to have to find new ways to add things to his food. He likes the taste of EVO--so sometimes I add a few pieces of it to his food when he is being picky. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. The ideal situation would be if I could mix foods together, feed one food in the morning and another at breakfast, or alternate between two foods on a daily basis for variety. However, for some reason, all of the pundits say that none of these are optimum for the dog based on the specific formulation of foods. I emailed Canidae last night and asked them about it. If I get a reply, I will post it here. Answer: Thanks Herschel. I'm dying to know what they say! The thing is they all want you to feed just their food, but hopefully you will get an answer that either confirms what we are reading or doesn't. I really want to feed her Eagle Pack, but she doesn't like it that well so I am placating ME. But for what it's worth with you and your dog, I have found that crumbling a bit of NB Dog Food Roll in with the dry and the dog will eat anything. I just didn't want to have to do that. I figured there is something wrong if a dog doesn't feel good about his food so why disguise it. ...sigh.. I bought some candidae and have hand fed her some of it and she seems to like it. Once I settle this issue about mixing, if I have to go to one food, I will ease her into the canidae and see how it goes. But I still would REALLY prefer to mix. Answer: Thanks Herschel. I'm dying to know what they say! The thing is they all want you to feed just their food, but hopefully you will get an answer that either confirms what we are reading or doesn't. I really want to feed her Eagle Pack, but she doesn't like it that well so I am placating ME. But for what it's worth with you and your dog, I have found that crumbling a bit of NB Dog Food Roll in with the dry and the dog will eat anything. I just didn't want to have to do that. I figured there is something wrong if a dog doesn't feel good about his food so why disguise it. ...sigh.. I bought some candidae and have hand fed her some of it and she seems to like it. Once I settle this issue about mixing, if I have to go to one food, I will ease her into the canidae and see how it goes. But I still would REALLY prefer to mix. Just curious, you said that you fed your dog NB and the dog likes it but you want something better. What is not good about NB? Answer: Well it's more subtle than that Bob. Obviously I am not an NB "un" fan, but we have to remember I have a puppy here not an adult dog. For starters, I am not thrilled with the protein level. Now i know you think a few percent doesn't matter, but I think it can for puppies. I have to admit I got hooked by the almost carnival way DVP sells his food. I see nothing detrimental in it by comparison to other foods, but I do have a problem with "all breed" food for my puppy to begin with. Maybe it's pyschological. So in my mind, the foods that have the most "Chops" right now tend to make me think they are the best for her. By "Chops" I mean the foods the greatest number of hard core dog people feed. Ok The truth is: Tosca looks Great! Her coat is beautiful (as do Smokey's and Hudson's). I have to give at least half that credit to NB as half her food is NB. But Tosca is a kid and I am just maybe a little too paranoid about the food that is best for her and sometimes wonder if I am doing right by her by not using that food which the most people find the greatest result with puppies. I am also an Eagle Pack fan for my cats, having consistently had cats live well past average age, in some cases in the twenties, so the fact that Tosca doesn't think it's all that great bothers me, and so I bought NB to mix with it to stimulate her appetite. So NB was an accident so to speak. The fact that she's doing great on it, at least outwardly, is a pleasant side effect, but I am not sure at this stage in her life I want to feed only NB to her. down the Road is important. Maybe if she were an adult, I wouldn't be thinking this way. So you see, I am at a crossroad. Answer: Well it's more subtle than that Bob. Obviously I am not an NB "un" fan, but we have to remember I have a puppy here not an adult dog. For starters, I am not thrilled with the protein level. Now i know you think a few percent doesn't matter, but I think it can for puppies. I have to admit I got hooked by the almost carnival way DVP sells his food. I see nothing detrimental in it by comparison to other foods, but I do have a problem with "all breed" food for my puppy to begin with. Maybe it's pyschological. So in my mind, the foods that have the most "Chops" right now tend to make me think they are the best for her. By "Chops" I mean the foods the greatest number of hard core dog people feed. Ok The truth is: Tosca looks Great! Her coat is beautiful (as do Smokey's and Hudson's). I have to give at least half that credit to NB as half her food is NB. But Tosca is a kid and I am just maybe a little too paranoid about the food that is best for her and sometimes wonder if I am doing right by her by not using that food which the most people find the greatest result with puppies. I am also an Eagle Pack fan for my cats, having consistently had cats live well past average age, in some cases in the twenties, so the fact that Tosca doesn't think it's all that great bothers me, and so I bought NB to mix with it to stimulate her appetite. So NB was an accident so to speak. The fact that she's doing great on it, at least outwardly, is a pleasant side effect, but I am not sure at this stage in her life I want to feed only NB to her. down the Road is important. Maybe if she were an adult, I wouldn't be thinking this way. So you see, I am at a crossroad. I too, am a BIG Eagle Pack fan as of recently. I have heard of a lot of dogs really liking the taste of NB though. If your dog really likes the NB and is doing well on it, why not add a raw egg daily to her diet to up her protein a little? Eggs are really healthy for dogs and that way you both get what you want. :) Answer: Well it's more subtle than that Bob. Obviously I am not an NB "un" fan, but we have to remember I have a puppy here not an adult dog. For starters, I am not thrilled with the protein level. Now i know you think a few percent doesn't matter, but I think it can for puppies. I have to admit I got hooked by the almost carnival way DVP sells his food. I see nothing detrimental in it by comparison to other foods, but I do have a problem with "all breed" food for my puppy to begin with. Maybe it's pyschological. So in my mind, the foods that have the most "Chops" right now tend to make me think they are the best for her. By "Chops" I mean the foods the greatest number of hard core dog people feed. Ok The truth is: Tosca looks Great! Her coat is beautiful (as do Smokey's and Hudson's). I have to give at least half that credit to NB as half her food is NB. But Tosca is a kid and I am just maybe a little too paranoid about the food that is best for her and sometimes wonder if I am doing right by her by not using that food which the most people find the greatest result with puppies. I am also an Eagle Pack fan for my cats, having consistently had cats live well past average age, in some cases in the twenties, so the fact that Tosca doesn't think it's all that great bothers me, and so I bought NB to mix with it to stimulate her appetite. So NB was an accident so to speak. The fact that she's doing great on it, at least outwardly, is a pleasant side effect, but I am not sure at this stage in her life I want to feed only NB to her. down the Road is important. Maybe if she were an adult, I wouldn't be thinking this way. So you see, I am at a crossroad. Well that is what I used as a criteria. The result that I got when I feed NB and the nutritional breakdown of the food which to me showed the protein not much different from some other highly recommended foods. I tried feeding Smokey some higher protein foods that are often mentioned on this forum and she acted like I fed her ground wallboard. ;) Answer: Showpug, I never thought of that. Thank you. That would definitely increase the protein intake for sure. Answer: Here is the reply from "Team Canidae". It didn't give much of an explanation and it seemed kind of snide. "It is not a problem to alternate all 3 of our different dry foods, just not together at the same time due to the vitamin/mineral ratios. Also, if your puppy has trained you to feed him something new whenever he's bored you might try simply adding a little warm water. Best of luck with your new furry friend. Team Canidae" I didn't appreciate the bit about my puppy having me trained. Is it so much to ask that I want my dog to enjoy eating? In their defense, I asked both about rotating their foods and also about including foods of other companies. Apparently they only wanted to discuss their foods. Answer: LOL Herschel. I'm not really surprised. I wouldn't expect them to say Sure! Go ahead! Buy some other product and less of ours! But hey you tried. That was nice of you to email them. I appreciate your help. Hmmm. I wonder if my puppy IS training me? Heh. I have been reading on the net on this issue and the two things that bother me are the advisors are tied to one company and I can't get any actual information on why it's a bad idea other than I Say So. But one thing I saw that DID make a lot of sense to me is, if a dog develops an allergy, it would be a lot harder to determine the cause, because you have more elements to consider in their food. Answer: LOL Herschel. I'm not really surprised. I wouldn't expect them to say Sure! Go ahead! Buy some other product and less of ours! But hey you tried. That was nice of you to email them. I appreciate your help. Hmmm. I wonder if my puppy IS training me? Heh. I have been reading on the net on this issue and the two things that bother me are the advisors are tied to one company and I can't get any actual information on why it's a bad idea other than I Say So. But one thing I saw that DID make a lot of sense to me is, if a dog develops an allergy, it would be a lot harder to determine the cause, because you have more elements to consider in their food. That is what confuses me. I have a science background and to just state that mixing 2 or more foods is problematic without giving some actual and specific examples of a mixture of 2 adding up to a problem, doesn't make any sense to me either. In fact, by that reasoning, almost all of us should be dead by the time we reach adulthood... ;) I mean, who doesn't mix foods in their diet as well as take supplements. Incidentally, when you call customer support at any company, you are usually talking to someone that has a script in front of them. They have no idea what the answer is if they don't read the answer that is on the script : i.e. Is it Ok to mix different foods or brands of foods ? ans Tell the caller, " No , you should stick to one brand and one food type and if your dog stops eating the food, just wait, eventually your dog will get hungry enough to eat "wood chips.....;) ( I just made up the wood chips part..... :lol-sign: ) Answer: More information from "Team Canidae": I asked: Thank you for the prompt reply. We almost always add warm water to our dog's food to keep him properly hydrated. When we don't, it's to give him variety and chewing for his teeth (he actually chews each piece individually). This isn't a matter of us constantly switching foods/adding things to make sure he isn't bored. We just get concerned when he won't eat for an entire day but is noticeably hungry. Our goal is for our dog to enjoy his food. Ideally, that would be a food that we enjoy feeding him. Do you have any specific information about the vitamin/mineral imbalances that would occur from mixing foods? I've been trying to wrap my mind around this for a while but I can't make sense of it. If the All Life Stages Food is nutritionally balanced and the Chicken and Rice Formula is balanced, then alternating them on a daily basis would create an average nutrient content between the two foods. That means that no vitamins/minerals/nutrients would be in excess or in deficiency. Right? Wrong? I have no idea! Please help me understand." The reply from Team Canidae, which completely contradicts their last response. Hi – it is like human eating habits. They are not the same each day with nutrients and the body is well able to thrive under these circumstances. The goal is that on the average the animal or person gets nutritionally good food. Mixing foods would not be to the detriment of the animal. CANIDAE Support So now it is OK to feed two foods? Does anyone else want to email Eagle Pack, Innova, etc. so we can get a consensus? Answer: More information from "Team Canidae": I asked: The reply from Team Canidae, which completely contradicts their last response. So now it is OK to feed two foods? Does anyone else want to email Eagle Pack, Innova, etc. so we can get a consensus? Sounds like the smoke was on high and the light went through about 3 mirrors.... BTW, I just emailed NB and asked them the same question. Answer: Ok my assignment for tonight is to weigh the two foods I use and find out if they yield the same amount in cups/fractions. If the weight is the same, then going by weight still yields the same math. Wow, kinda like Mr. Wizard. lol. The Mixed Food Project. LOL. Apparently Team Canidae is as confused as we are. Answer: I think we know Eagle's answer, based on your link Herschel. No mixing brands. It can cause problems. Pick a food. As a test, we would have to tell them that our dog hates their food and we want to feed it but can't use it alone as the dog won't eat it and then see what they say. Let's see what NB says and then I will email them. UPDATE: I emailed them. Answer: I think we know Eagle's answer, based on your link Herschel. No mixing brands. It can cause problems. Pick a food. As a test, we would have to tell them that our dog hates their food and we want to feed it but can't use it alone as the dog won't eat it and then see what they say. Let's see what NB says and then I will email them. UPDATE: I emailed them. That's a great idea. That should twist them into a pretzel trying to come up with an answer to that one...........:D Answer: Haha. Do you guys feel like investigators, or is it just me? Answer: Speaking of dogs training us...I don't know why anyone would take offense. They DO train us. We learn the same way they do....by reinforcement. When they train us, they're reinforcing our behavior with something we like. So we repeat it. My dogs know what to do to make me click my clicker. I get reinforced when they give me a correct response. We like it when they eat so we try and give them foods they like. When they don't eat, we are not reinforced because it makes us worry, so we find something they like and they eat it....just the very reinforcement we wanted...our behavior is modified so that we try to find foods they like...nothing wrong with that. LOL.:D Answer: I feel so...so..so used!:lol-sign: Answer: May I ask what kind of Eagle Pack you are feeding ? Answer: Hi darci, At this time, I'm feeding her the Holistic Chicken Meal and Rice although it's not the only one I tried. Answer: What other EP formulas have you tried ? Fish ? I see you have a pup, I liked the idea in this thread where someone said to leave them on NB and just add some more protein. I know it must be frustrating to have a food you really like but your pup has other ideas. Mine have eat the EP Fish and loved it. I have also fed Natural Balance with a lot of good results, all 3 allergy formulas. Currently we are feeding Timberwolf Ocean blue, they love it and are doing great. Answer: I tried all the holistics, Darci. I wont use the others because of the corn. She will eat them but she literally SCARFS down the NB. I want her to enjoy her food and to me it has been clear which one she likes. You know, that egg idea is sounding pretty good to me too. I mean that certainly would take care of my protein issues and she would still be happy eating what she likes. I really need to get off my own Eagle Pack kick in this case and focus on what works for her. She doesn't like it alone and I am the real reason she gets any at all. Old habits die hard, especially when you are a person who has seen such good results from a brand. I still have this curiosity over mixing foods though, in a curiosity/ferret kind of way.:) Answer: I'm not inclined to mix the foods. For example, looking at the two bags I have in the pantry right now....one for Lyric (NB) and one for the other dogs(Canidae)....I like it that the NB has the taurine in it. That's good for the heart. Dobermans are plagued with a propensity to cardiomyopathy. So, I'm glad it has some. (don't know if it's enough but....) So, say I decide to give him half the NB and half the Canidae. Canidae doesn't have any taurine. He wouldn't be getting as much taurine. Those two foods look good, but they don't have all the same ingredients. Canidae has 24% protein and NB has 22%....no big deal there. But there are other things which are present in one, but not in the other. Anyhow...when you mix, you may be cutting down on one or more items. What if that item needs to be in that amount to balance with some other element? You're messing with the ratios or could be if the foods are not identical. Calcium and phosphorus have something to do with eachother. It's important in feeding horses. I don't know how it all works, but Mordy would. That might get thrown out of balance if the amounts differ between two foods. Maybe it's planned out with other elements to work in one...maybe there's something about metabolizing or absorbtion...other factors, in other words that we don't know about. We may not have all the data to make a conclusion based soley on the math you're doing. There may be more to it than that, I what I'm saying. Answer: Doberluv, In your situation, it makes perfect sense for you not to mix foods. Similarly, someone that has a dog with a lamb allergy that feeds a fish-based formula wouldn't want to combine their usual food with Canidae All Life Stages, which does contain lamb. However, for those of us with no major allergies or special needs, I'm still not certain if it's OK to mix foods or not. I like your example with the calcium/phosphorus ratios. If the calcium/phosphorus is balanced in Canidae and it is also balanced in Innova Adult, then why would mixing the two create an imbalance? It's not like the amount of either mineral would be doubled or halved--it would just be an average amount of the two. Is that average any better or any worse than feeding the original formulation? I'm waiting for a nutritionist at one of these companies to let us know!! Answer: No answer yet from Eagle Pack. Maybe they just think the question is so stupid as to not require an answer. lol. I hold out hope I will hear from them though. If I don't get an answer I am just going to finish up the Eagle Pack and keep her on Natural Balance with a raw egg and leave it at that. I will never be satisfied with the answers that it can cause problems without some actual statistical proof though. Assumptions can actually travel around the world like that. It's not that I think nobody is telling the truth. It's just that the answers are touchy feely wherever I read about it. This can happen. That can happen. But nothing that shows me actuals. How many dogs have suffered ill effects from mixing foods? What foods were they on? How did we determine that their problems had to do with mixing foods, scientifically, subjectively, what? Things like that. Maybe it's out there but if it is I haven't found it yet. I just saw a site that said it's a great idea. I have no means of determining whether that's bull or not either. I am left with math and math tells me, "Whattttttt???". But as with all things like this, I guess it is really best not to take the chance whether I ever see actuals or not. I had no idea till now that this was even an issue. My vet didn't think it was a problem but then we all know vets aren't all exactly nutrition experts. I just want to do what's best for my dog just like everybody else. Even if Eagle Pack says it's fine I can't be sure without real actuals, and I don't think they will say it's ok, because the link to the greatdane lady Herschel posted in this thread says it's not a good thing to do and she practically IS Eagle Pack. Her links to "why' are dead links, so I am right back where I started. With an opinion regarding balance that defies the math. Still she does offer links to other foods besides Eagle Pack that she recommends, so she can't be all THAT subjective. Then Team Canidae says no it's not ok but yes it is. So maybe I am just waiting to hear what I want to hear and that's not very scientific either. Still, the Ferret in me wants something more definitive past the belief or assumption. Im sure it must be out there or so many experts wouldn't be agreeing, right? Answer: Oh, as I mentioned the greatdanelady's links to possible problems is dead so I looked up the terms. One is Pano. Here is an interesting link on it that cites Overdosing of calcium, phosphorus and protein. http://www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/berner1/lpano.htm The other is HOD, which seems to have more to do with protein intake at a young age in large and medium breed dogs. Here's a link on that: http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0018.htm The third acronym is OCD, I am assuming this refers to Osteochondritis Dissecans rather than Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. The link cites diet as a warning against not letting your dog get overweight.Here's a link. http://www.thepetcenter.com/xra/ocd.html http://www.workingdogs.com/doc0018.htm Answer: Toscas Mom, Sounds like Natural Balance + egg will work great for you. If Eagle Pack decides to respond, please post the answer! (I believe their nutritionist is John. Mordy has his contact information) Yeah--I'm not sure if I can say that I agree with the GreatDaneLady. None of us are dealing with giant breeds, and I can't see how mixing two high quality foods can lead to an overdose in anything... Answer: Wow, I just noticed this thread... Good luck with the decision! I researched food as soon as I started *thinking* about getting a dog and settled on Natural Balance for a variety of reasons. BUT, Hudson is about 1 year old, so I didn't really have the puppy/protein issue to consider. Sounds to me like the added egg or even a little added meat or fish would be just fine, though. Actually rotating a few different added protein sources could conceivably be the best thing for Tosca as she would be getting fresh food and a little variety. Hmm... Answer: The Animal Nutritionist from Natural Balance who has a degree in this field, responded to my email. She said that there is no problem in mixing different kinds of kibble,keeping in mind that if food allergies are a concern, that you don't select a kibble that the dog is allergic to. That's pretty much what I had figured... Answer: I asked my nutrition professor at school... Keep in mind, this was a in-the-hallway, can-I-ask-a-quick-question sort of thing, so it may not be a complete answer, BUT... She said that, provided both foods are completed and balanced, and appropriate for your dog's life stage, and we are talking about a healthy dog, there should be no problems in mixing foods. She also said that there are enough dog foods out there that you shouldn't have a problem finding one that meets all of your needs. But, if it makes you as an owner feel more comfortable about what you are feeding, feel free to do it, as it won't have any negative impact on your dog. Good luck! Answer: Stealth, thanks for taking the time to do that. I appreciate it! Answer: I didn't want you folks to think I abandoned my responsibility here. I want you to know that I have NOT gotten a response from the Eagle Pack people at all so far. Answer: But the people at Eagle Pack have such good communication...blah blah blah....Canidae doesn't respond to any emails...blah blah. :) Sorry, I'm just being a pest. Haha. Answer: But the people at Eagle Pack have such good communication...blah blah blah....Canidae doesn't respond to any emails...blah blah. :) Sorry, I'm just being a pest. Haha. Natural Balance always responds with a day... ;) ;) Maybe they are more organized..... Answer: Ok Troops, The Eagle Has landed. Scuse me if I removed my email address and the sender's address. I don't want to be responsible for spam to him either. Subj: RE: Eagle Pack Questions/Comments Date: 11/28/2006 12:15:09 PM Eastern Standard Time From: xxxxxxxx@eaglepack.com[/email] To: xxxxxxxx@xxxx.com Sent from the Internet (Details) Hello, …and we are sorry for the delay in responding. You can mix the 2 foods and still get the benefits of the Eagle. Thanks for being so loyal, John -----Original Message----- From: Eagle Pack Pet Foods [mailto:wecare@eaglepack.com] Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:39 AM To: Marsman Subject: FW: Eagle Pack Questions/Comments -----Original Message----- From: xxxxxxxx@xxx.com Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 3:18 PM To: wecare@eaglepack.com Subject: Eagle Pack Questions/Comments Hi! I'm in a bit of a quandry here. I am a rabid Eagle Pack fan. I have fed my cats Eagle for years and they all seem to live well above the average and do very well. I now have a Collie dog. I want her to eat Eagle Pack and I have tried all of your foods for her. She just doesn't have much gusto for it. This bothers me because I am an Eagle Pack fan, but at the same time I want my dog to enjoy eating. So I began mixing Eagle Pack with Natural Balance in a half/half mixture. This mixture works well for her appetite it seems. She loves it. I have read conflicting information on whether or not this is a healthy thing to do, so I am asking your opinion on it. I do not want to force my dog to eat that which doesn't make her happy and at the same time I am in a struggle because I want her to get at least some Eagle Pack benefit. Your advise would be greatly appreciated. Answer: It seems that all the companies so far that were contacted responded with an " It's OK to mix" answer, which is what I thought all along...... |
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