What is "quality"?Question:Just curious... In your mind, when you think about "high quality" versus "low quality" dog food, what makes the difference? I see a lot of "This is higher-quality than that", but what is the definition of "quality"? Answer: To me a low quality dog food has the word "byproduct" on the bag. Not that byproducts would be baaaaad if we knew exactly what byproducts they were talking about. But they never tell. This could be parts and internals of dead animals, regardless of how they die besides. A low quality food to me has objectional grains as one or more of the first five ingredients. Especially if it's corn. To me a hight quality food has no corn or corn products. Corn is not digestable. Humans have experienced this and it's no different for dogs. These are called fillers. Some low quality dog food manufacturers, Iams comes to mind, will tell you their food contains "no fillers" They have magically decided that "grains" are not fillers. To me a good quality food has more than one meat in it, unless it is a food for allergic dogs that need one type of food. A low quality food contains dyes to make it look good. Plenty of preservatives and some even contain an ingredient used in euthanasia of dogs. To me a low quality food contains no Alpha Omega fatty acids. To me the lowest quality of food of all pushes more grains than meat. A good example of this bad example is Science Diet. In addition to giving dogs chicken feed, that food can cause obesity. Just as with people, too many carbs are fattening. Worse yet, I have had cats who were addicted to science diet. It was a hell of a trip getting them off of that crap. They sell cheap ingredients, fillers as premium food and probably should be indicted for it. But what do I know. I look at it this way. Dogs are carnivores with a lean toward ominivore. But if a dog only had one thing to eat, if you toss an ear of corn in one direction in your yard and you toss a T-Bone in the other direction, which one do you think your dog will run after? I probably got some of this wrong, but I think all of this is the general idea. Answer: For me, its any food that contains sugar, high salt, more grain then meat, dyes, artificial flavors, unknown by proucts (like it just say "poultry by product"), chemical perservatives, and any food you can find in a grocery store, most pet stores, or that is advertised on t.v. Also, price does not always indicate quality, just look at a bag of Iams, you can buy a bag of Canidae or Eagle Pack for the same price!! But if a dog only had one thing to eat, if you toss an ear of corn in one direction in your yard and you toss a T-Bone in the other direction, which one do you think your dog will run after? Funny you should say this, but my pups would probaby run after the ear of corn. :lol-sign: After they harvest the fields, there is corn everywhere! I try and scoop it up the best I can, but I miss some, and they'll stand there for hours if I let them, just picking out pieces of corn. Answer: Tosca's mom has hit the nail on the head. Corn would be 'low quality' also any food that didn't have meat as the first ingredient isn't very good. Beef Tallow is also a low quality fat product, instead it should say 'chicken fat' for example. High quality IMO would have meat meal as the no1 ingredient (i.e lamb meal, chicken meal etc) as the meat meal is a concentrated form of meat; less water more protein!! Look for 'meat meal' over 'meat and bone meal' as the meat and bone meal is an inexpensive source of protein and usually contains high quantities of the 'bone' part. Rice is also good, brown for the nutritional value and white for digestability. You can't go wrong with foods that contain both. Remember Rice is good, corn is bad!! Answer: Actually the claim that corn is "not digestible" in a dog kibble is completely false. It's no better and no worse than any other grains used in kibble manufacturing, as long as it fills the role of a carb source and isn't used in combination with corn gluten as a poor quality protein source. Anyone who is interested can compare the nutritional values of rice and corn here: http://nutritiondata.com/compare.php?q=B00001-01c01Tj.B00001-01c01Vk It is also very important to know what kind of corn is used - what you get in a bag of Purina Dog Chow isn't the same as for example in a bag of Eagle Pack's "Super Premium" line. Grains in kibble are not fillers. A "filler" would be an ingredient that is of little or no nutritional value to the dog, such as peanut or soybean hulls or mill run of any kind. While grains aren't necessarily ideal, and many lesser quality kibbles contain far too large amounts of them, they do have nutritional value and digestibility is ensured by the extruding or baking process. I hope this article will help shed some light: http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts Answer: Geeze Louise Mordy there isn't a thing I can say on these board that doesn't give you heartburn is there? Answer: Well for Dogssake thank you! I have yet to meet a doctor who told me that corn is digestible. In that case, Science Diet must be great food. I'm not going to feed corn to my dog. Answer: I'm sorry that you seem to have a problem with my posts, ToscasMom, but this happens to be a field I have researched for years and I don't like it when false information is posted. Corn is digestible, how else do you think would many poor people in the world survive on food staples made from corn? I think you misunderstood something someone told you and are just running with that. It's your choice not to feed any particular grain ingredient, or any other ingredient for that matter, but I have a problem with the spreading of incorrect information. Answer: Just curious... In your mind, when you think about "high quality" versus "low quality" dog food, what makes the difference? This is the title of this thread. While I appreciate that you have a nutrional opinion and I understand what you do, there are many experts who defy corn. That means you have your opinion and they have theirs. If you all had the same approach and opinions only one of you would survive. Secondly, you and I both know that one of the first things we all look at is how many grains are in a food and what those grains are. Even I, who am not the standalone emphatic expert as you are, I know that corn can be a source of many problems with cats and dogs and that is it not needed, and that there are far better grains for dogs than corn. Science Diet and you disagree with me. I take mild offense at you telling me I am spreading false information. I am stating information you don't like. What I have found as you folllow me around with posts is that you have a One Size Fits all idea even when it comes to my own dog, whom you do not know. I just find the other expert's style a bit less dictatorial. That's all. I do not wish to get into a wee wee match with you, I just prefer not to have you give me emphatic orders in the place of advice. No harm done either way then. One of the things I like about the people who know things on this board is they are rarely emphatic. I simply do not relate to that and tend to discount it. Answer: Yikes, I didn't mean to start a dog fight! I am just interested to see how everyone views "quality". I just started my first nutrition course in vet school, and I am overwhelmed by all the information. Between professors' notes and my 1000+ page "Small Animal Clinical Nutrition" book, I'm swamped. The quality debate is an interesting one... I just want to hear what everyone here thinks! Answer: LOL It's ok. I've seen way worse on here. We are actually having lunch tomorrow.:lol-sign: Wow, they actually get into nutrition in vet school now? That's great! Most vets don't have a clue. Some never even heard of any foods except Science Diet, which you will find most of us would rather swallow a broom than feed. Hey, listen, after you do your sorting, can you come tell us about it? Answer: This is the title of this thread. While I appreciate that you have a nutrional opinion and I understand what you do, there are many experts who defy corn. That means you have your opinion and they have theirs. If you all had the same approach and opinions only one of you would survive. Secondly, you and I both know that one of the first things we all look at is how many grains are in a food and what those grains are. Even I, who am not the standalone emphatic expert as you are, I know that corn can be a source of many problems with cats and dogs and that is it not needed, and that there are far better grains for dogs than corn. Science Diet and you disagree with me. I take mild offense at you telling me I am spreading false information. I am stating information you don't like. What I have found as you folllow me around with posts is that you have a One Size Fits all idea even when it comes to my own dog, whom you do not know. I just find the other expert's style a bit less dictatorial. That's all. I do not wish to get into a wee wee match with you, I just prefer not to have you give me emphatic orders in the place of advice. No harm done either way then. One of the things I like about the people who know things on this board is they are rarely emphatic. I simply do not relate to that and tend to discount it. Don't feel bad, I learned that saying good things about Natural Balance doesn't bode well around here either ;) Answer: If corn is not digestable, how do you explain how popcorn starts to dissolve the second it touches your tongue? J/W... Answer: Air. Popcorn uses air when it pops. Now, down to the kernel, you won't get that feeling. Answer: Don't feel bad, I learned that saying good things about Natural Balance doesn't bode well around here either ;) No, actually, it doesn't "bode well" because its annoying how much do they pay you? leave your work at work hahaha ALL dogs are unique and there isn't 1 dog food that is good for every single dog out there. it has been suggested regardless of the dog or any info given - which is why some disagree with you. I have an idea to solve the corn disagreement. Give your dog some corn (no additives, salt, whatever), and then keep an eye on its 'exiting matter' :lol-sign: Answer: No, actually, it doesn't "bode well" because its annoying how much do they pay you? leave your work at work hahaha ALL dogs are unique and there isn't 1 dog food that is good for every single dog out there. it has been suggested regardless of the dog or any info given - which is why some disagree with you. I have an idea to solve the corn disagreement. Give your dog some corn (no additives, salt, whatever), and then keep an eye on its 'exiting matter' :lol-sign: Hey, I have never stated that NB should be used by everyone, I have said that I think it is a good food and for some reason there seems to be a stigma about mentioning that on this forum. Some people , when they read a postive comment about it, seem to get bent out of shape and post back rude comments like yours for instance...... Sorry I "annoy" you..... Incidentally I found your comment rather annoying and rude to boot , so I guess we are even.......:popcorn: ha ha ha !!!!! Answer: I have an idea to solve the corn disagreement. Give your dog some corn (no additives, salt, whatever), and then keep an eye on its 'exiting matter' I rest my case:lol-sign: Answer: ToscasMom- Yeah, we have a six-week course this semester (I'm in my first year), and will have a semester-long small animal nutrition course sometime later (2nd or 3rd year, not sure which). You can choose to do an advanced clinical nutrition course as well. I'm sure there are some large animal nutrition courses too. People really interested in nutrition can go on to become board-certified in nutrition if they do a residency program (too much more school for me!). One of our lecturers had a stat that corn, barely, and rice are all about 95% digestible... I don't have my notes with me, but they did cite their source. I'll have to dig it up. He did clarify that the digestibility of corn depends on what part of the kernel is used. I did see a big pile of farm dog poo on the dairy goat farm we visited the other day, and it was chock full of whole corn kernels... but dog food companies do not use whole kernels of corn... Answer: He did clarify that the digestibility of corn depends on what part of the kernel is used. I see. So this would explain why you could see corn in the dog's stool with some foods but then not with others? When a person has, say diverticulitis one of the first things they are told never to eat again is corn, along with a number of other things, citing the fact that it um..passes thru the system. Same for things like tomato skins, pepper skins, etc etc. These things, if simply passing thru obviously have not been digested would you say? Although perhaps what they are referring to is the skin of the kernel? Just curious: Is nutrition an elective course for vets or is it part of the core? And will Hill's be conducting seminars? Answer: Yeah, I assume the part of the kernel used would affect how much of it comes out the other end- ground whole kernel corn being the least digestible? I'm not sure, we haven't gotten to specifics yet. I don't know about diverticulitis- my roommate in college had ulceritive colitis, and she wasn't able to eat things like apple skins. I think in her case, the skins just made her system work to hard to digest them, so it caused irritation and inflammation. The Intro Nutrition (the one I'm in right now) and Small Animal Nutrition courses are both required, and the Advanced Small Animal Nutrition course is an elective. Hill's doesn't give any seminars during the courses- we are taught by university faculty, just like all our other courses. Hill's does sponsor lunchtime seminars which are fully disclosed to be sponsored by them, and they do bribe us there with pizza, subs, etc. So does Iams, and Purina, and Banfield, and Fort Dodge, and lots of other companies who could potentially make money off of vets. Don't worry, we are very skeptical and go in fully aware that they are just commercials. ;-) We are poor and will take all the free food we can get! I'll admit, Hill's did purchase us each a copy of our Small Animal Clinical Nutrition textbook, which is awesome because I really didn't want to spend another $100 on yet another textbook... But in case you're wondering, my puppy eats Eagle Pack! Answer: To me, "quality" means: 1. No fillers 2.No artificial colors/flavors 3. No corn 4. Healthful foods, like carrot, potato, veggies, etc. 5. A balanced protein/fat content "Poor Quality" Foods: 1. Have fillers, artificial colors/flavors, no nutritional value, corn, un natural ingredients. Examples: -Beneful -Iams -Pedigree -Eukanuba -"Mighty Dog" -Purina (Granted, most of these are made by the same company) Answer: ^Thanks for bringing this thread back on course. :) Answer: You're welcome! LOL, I tried but I wasn't sure if I'd be correct. Hehe I hope I did ok! Answer: I have an idea to solve the corn disagreement. Give your dog some corn (no additives, salt, whatever), and then keep an eye on its 'exiting matter' :lol-sign: That's not the way corn is used in pet foods though! What you are talking about are the unripe corn kernels the way they are consumed as a vegetable. Dogs don't have the dentition nor digestive capacity to break down plant cell walls, so you would see the same incompletely digested matter in the stool if you gave your dog a whole raw carrot, or a raw apple. It's an entirely different story if you run fruits and veggies through a food processor or blender and then feed them. In pet food, fully ripe, dry, ground corn kernel is used, which has a high starch content (the part that "puffs" up in popcorn). This is the same version that is used to make things like corn bread or corn tortillas, or corn flakes and other corn-based cereals. Like any other grain-based sources of starch, be it white or brown rice, barley, millet, oats, rye, wheat, quinoa, amaranth and so on and so forth, corn used and processed in this capacity is highly digestible. It does have a higher amount of fiber than other grains, especially if the whole ground corn is used and certain manufacturer use feed-grade corn that isn't particularly rich in starch content. And without starch, there is no kibble - because the little pieces would simply fall apart if they weren'theld together by the gelatinized starches. Answer: I'll admit, Hill's did purchase us each a copy of our Small Animal Clinical Nutrition textbook, which is awesome because I really didn't want to spend another $100 on yet another textbook... I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you! :lol-sign: Answer: I have been reading these posts for months now. I would believe anything that Morty said. She is smart, caring and does her research before talking about anything. Answer: So, what are some examples of fillers? Here are the ingredients of Ol' Roy Premium, as provided on the Dog Food Project website: Ingredients: Ground yellow corn, meat and bone meal, ground whole wheat, soybean meal, wheat middlings, animal fat (preserved with BHA and citric acid), chicken by-product meal, rice, animal digest, salt, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, choline chloride, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, vitamin E supplement, niacin, copper sulafate, manganous oxide, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, thiamine mononitrate, menadione sodium bisulfite (complex source of vitamin K), calcium iodate, vitamin D3 supplement, riboflavin supplement, cobalt carbonate, folic acid, sodium selenite What fillers are in there? Answer: Everything! The first ingredient in that is CORN. NOT good for dogs. wheat and by-product are also unhealthy, not easily digestable ingedients for dogs NONE of those things you listed are NATURAL. all crud Answer: Good basics, Dulce :) I'd add to your list that I want to see that the raw ingredients were of human grade. Answer: THANKS! And you're right, human grade. I LOVE your dog :) Answer: Looks like the ingredients Hill's would sell for $35 a bag.:yikes: Answer: Oh man, yuck. I feed Eukanuba Prescrition Diet Eek! Well, I've read the ingredients, and they aren't bad. They keep my dog from getting sick, so it makes me happy :) Answer: Quality definitely depends on the ingredients, not only what the ingredients are but of what quality each specific ingredient is (human-grade ingredients are often of higher/safer quality than pet grade). It is a false statement to say "corn is not digestible". There are parts of corn, just like there are parts of some rice and grains, that are not digestible. But corn is a common food for horses and other livestock and they do quite well with it. In fact, too much corn can create problems for them (in horses, it can be too "hot") - and that wouldn't happen if it wasn't digestible! We can eat cooked corn and if we chew it properly it doesn't all pass through undigested. The processing of the various ingredients makes a huge difference as to how much is digested. I worry much less about corn and grains than I do artificial preservatives and colors/flavorings. For the most part, some corn is not going to hurt a normal healthy dog. They may pass through the undigestible parts, but they'll handle the rest okay unless they have some sort of sensitivity to it. I prefer a food that has a high content of meats as opposed to a high content of grains, and of course good quality foods that contain a lot of meat will cost more. Many dog foods list a meat source as the first ingredient, and then several variations of rice or other grain/starch type ingredients - it makes it appear like the meat source is the most important, while it really contains mostly grains/starches. In addition, it's good to avoid by-products or meat meals if possible because they can be a mix of "parts" - including parts from diseased animals or ones who were euthanized with drugs. If a food lists "chicken" instead of "chicken meal" or "chicken by-products", I'd say that the food is probably of a better quality. I know people are absolutely down on Science Diet, but I have to say that when I was a vet tech Science Diet helped turn around the health of MANY animals that came through the clinic. Back then we didn't have the choices here that we do now, and SD was definitely better than what most people fed. In addition, their Prescription Diets kept many dogs and cats from dying. People don't like to hear that, but I saw it first hand. Many pet owners do NOT want to bother with fixing their own foods and dogs and cats with serious health problems maintained or got better on Prescription Diet foods. I fed SD to my own dogs and cats for many years and they did beautifully on the food. I switched because I learned more about the artificial ingredients and didn't like that they couldn't manage to preserve their foods in a different way. But in all honesty, my animals did very well on those foods. My two cats, who ate SD for probably 10-12 years, lived to be 16 and almost 20 years old. All of my dogs have lived to be at least ten, I have a chow that is now 15 who ate SD from puppyhood until she was eight. I've had no problems with tumors, heart disease, liver disease, kidney disease, etc. Of my last two dogs (both who had eaten SD for years), one was euthanized at ten because of increasing aggression due to epilepsy that we couldn't control any longer with drugs (she was healthy otherwise) and the other had degenerative myelopathy. I switched his diet to raw and I do think it helped him live a bit longer, but I don't believe that the DM was caused by his food. He was a big - oversized - German shepherd and he lived to 11 1/2. These days I am feeding one meal of kibble (not SD) and one meal of Honest Kitchen dehydrated mixed with raw meat and various supplements. I pay $55-65 per ten pound bucket of dehydrated food (it rehydrates to about 20 pounds). Most people wouldn't do that, but I love what I see in my dogs since I've started this, and with three older dogs (9, 10 and 15) it's worth it to me. This is an extremely high-quality food to me and it isn't because of the price - it's 100% human grade ingredients and has a good mix of meats, veggies and fruits (and some grains in some versions) along with a variety of vitamins and oils. My dogs have never had a problem with grains and so I don't worry about them too much. I've even been known to add oatmeal to their food at times! Melanie and the gang in Alaska Answer: I'll really add some fuel to the fire. Good=raw Bad=everything else. :popcorn: Answer: If a food lists "chicken" instead of "chicken meal" or "chicken by-products", I'd say that the food is probably of a better quality. If I am not mistaken, you would want chicken meal over chicken. Since dog food ingrediants are measured by thier hydrated weights, chicken would naturally come first. But once you dehydrate then, and cook it, it sudden falls down, making whatever is #2 (or even #3) first. And if the #2 slot is corn, you've suddenly got an Iams quality product. Now, chicken meal, on the other hand, has little water to start out with, so it stays up at top once its been cooked. Right? Answer: I'll really add some fuel to the fire. Good=raw Bad=everything else. :popcorn: :hail: I'm kinda being hipacritical (wow, spelt that wrong) because I feed kibble instead of Raw, but the second I get my lisence and a job I'm going out to the market to get some meat! :D bye bye kibble! ok I'm done! :D Answer: If I am not mistaken, you would want chicken meal over chicken. Since dog food ingrediants are measured by thier hydrated weights, chicken would naturally come first. But once you dehydrate then, and cook it, it sudden falls down, making whatever is #2 (or even #3) first. And if the #2 slot is corn, you've suddenly got an Iams quality product. Now, chicken meal, on the other hand, has little water to start out with, so it stays up at top once its been cooked. Right? Right! :) Fresh meat still contains up to 75% moisture before processing, so in the worst case, if a kibble doesn't contain any concentrated form of meat in meal form, you can end up with only around 4-5 oz of actual meat protein in the finished product for every pound of fresh meat that was included. Considering that many products already start out with a ratio of only one pound of meat per 2-3 pounds of grain (or even less), that's pretty low. Ideally a kibble includes both, some fresh meat that will end up somewhat less processed, and a non-generic source of meat meal that brings in a good level of animal-based protein. Given a choice between one that only includes fresh meat and one that only includes meat meal (again, only non-generic sources, and preferably no byproducts), the latter will generally be the better option. Answer: I didn't realize that Natural Balance had a "bad" reputation . . . That's what I fed to my cats (their kitty brand) and they did fine on it. I checked the ingredients, they were fine . . . I've heard people raving about NutroMax, but it gave my boys the stinkiest poop ever, I'll never use it again. Right now I use Kirkland's because it's higher quality than Purina, etc, but still cheap. Natural Balance was really killing my bank account. Answer: I didn't realize that Natural Balance had a "bad" reputation . . . That's what I fed to my cats (their kitty brand) and they did fine on it. I checked the ingredients, they were fine . . . I've heard people raving about NutroMax, but it gave my boys the stinkiest poop ever, I'll never use it again. Right now I use Kirkland's because it's higher quality than Purina, etc, but still cheap. Natural Balance was really killing my bank account. It does on this forum by a few. ;) I think it is an excellent food and I have tried a bunch of the "recommended foods" with poor results. Answer: Natural Balanec doesn't have a bad rep at all. It's a nice food, especially as far as what's available at Petco is concerned. The only issue it has become recently is that Bobsk8 is pushing it at every opportunity like he's getting paid for it. lol Answer: Oh man, today was a day that got everyone's hackles raised in Nutrition. Mostly we talked about AAFCO and their labelling regulations, but we started discussing what the vet's role should be in discussing nutrition with clients. Is it appropriate for a vet to endorse a specific brand? Should they only offer veterinary diets, or should they offer maintainance diets too (or neither)? How should a vet respond if a client asks "What do you feed your pets?" There were sooo many different opinions. We also talked about by-products, and I was surprised when our professor said that can be as good, if not better, sources of nutrients than striated muscle. By-products get a bad rap because they are not the organs traditionally used for human consumption, but in many cultures, what we consider by-products are considered delicacies. Heart, lung, trachea, and liver (collectively called the pluck), rumen (tripe), thymus gland (sweetbread)... cheap because Americans don't generally eat them, but does that mean they are no good for our pets? I see "by-products" on the label, and don't think Winnie should eat them, but is that for my sake or hers? Where is there research showing by-products are bad or good? Oh, this class makes my head hurt... Answer: Oh man, today was a day that got everyone's hackles raised in Nutrition. Mostly we talked about AAFCO and their labelling regulations, but we started discussing what the vet's role should be in discussing nutrition with clients. Is it appropriate for a vet to endorse a specific brand? Should they only offer veterinary diets, or should they offer maintainance diets too (or neither)? How should a vet respond if a client asks "What do you feed your pets?" There were sooo many different opinions. We also talked about by-products, and I was surprised when our professor said that can be as good, if not better, sources of nutrients than striated muscle. By-products get a bad rap because they are not the organs traditionally used for human consumption, but in many cultures, what we consider by-products are considered delicacies. Heart, lung, trachea, and liver (collectively called the pluck), rumen (tripe), thymus gland (sweetbread)... cheap because Americans don't generally eat them, but does that mean they are no good for our pets? I see "by-products" on the label, and don't think Winnie should eat them, but is that for my sake or hers? Where is there research showing by-products are bad or good? Oh, this class makes my head hurt... Most of the by-products in pet foods aren't regulated. They can contain chemicals and floor sweepings most of the time. If the by-products were clean and regulated and we actually knew what they consisted of then no, they aren't a bad ingredient. Problem is, we don't. When I worked at the vet clinic, the Hills reps came in and gave us the exact same by-product speech that you got. Read this:http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=ingrd Answer: Most of the by-products in pet foods aren't regulated. But who's to say that meat meals are well-regulated? Answer: But who's to say that meat meals are well-regulated? That is what I can't for the life of me figure out. They are always praising foods with meat meals versus the actual meat, but can't anything be used in the meal as long as it comes from some part of the animal? I found an article on what meat meal consists of. Meat meal can contain the boiled down flesh of animals we would find unacceptable for consumption. This can include zoo animals, road kill, and 4-D (dead, diseased, disabled, dying) livestock. Most shockingly, this also can include dogs and cats. That's right, your pets could be cannibals. Fast Food Nation author Eric Schlosser writes, "Although leading American manufacturers promise never to put rendered pets into their pet food, it is still legal to do so. A Canadian company, Sanimal Inc., was putting 40,000 pounds of dead dogs and dead cats into its dog and cat food every week, until discontinuing the practice in June 2001. "This food is healthy and good," said the company's vice president of procurement, responding to critics, ''but some people don't like to see meat meal that contains any pets." How roadkill ends up in Fido's food bowl The process that turns these animals and animal parts into pet food is also disgusting. After all, it takes a lot to turn roadkill into something owners feel good about pouring into their pets' bowls. Ann M. Martin describes the process in Food Pets Die For: "At the rendering plant a machine slowly grinds the entire mess in huge vats. Then this product is cooked at temperatures between 220 degrees Fahrenheit and 270 degrees Fahrenheit for 20 minutes to one hour. The mixture is centrifuged (spun at a high speed) and the grease (or tallow) rises to the top and it is removed from the mixture. The grease becomes the source of animal fat in most pet foods. Oftentimes, when you open a standard can of dog food, you will see a top layer of fat. The centrifuged product is the source of that fat, which is meant to entice a hungry dog or cat. After the grease is removed in the rendering process, the remaining material is dried. Meat meal, and meat and bone meal are the end product of this process. This dried material is usually found in dry pet food." Me, I will stick to the real thing and pass on the "meal"... http://www.newstarget.com/012647.html Answer: Hey, I have never stated that NB should be used by everyone, I have said that I think it is a good food and for some reason there seems to be a stigma about mentioning that on this forum. Some people , when they read a postive comment about it, seem to get bent out of shape and post back rude comments like yours for instance...... Sorry I "annoy" you..... Incidentally I found your comment rather annoying and rude to boot , so I guess we are even.......:popcorn: ha ha ha !!!!! It's not that you say it should be used by everyone, it's that, that's all you give advice about. NB this, NB that, I feed natural balance and people here know it's a good food. But it does get old when you see the same advice over and over again Answer: But who's to say that meat meals are well-regulated? "MEAT" meals are different from say "Chicken meal" when the meat source of the meal is not specified that is where you can run into trouble. The difference between actual chicken and chicken meal is water. Chicken meal is the same as chicken meat but with the water removed. The reason why chicken meal is better then chicken meat is because it is denser. So, when chicken meat is listed as the first ingredient, it can claim to be the largest amount by weight in the food, but you are weighing water. With chicken meal you actually get more meat because the water is removed and it takes more actual meat to weigh more. The poor quality comes in when it's just "meat meal" listed insted of "chicken meal" or "lamb meal" etc. Answer: Reminds me of some TV show that had a fake commercial for "Vintage Farms Deli Loaf, made with real meat chunks". Answer: It's not that you say it should be used by everyone, it's that, that's all you give advice about. NB this, NB that, I feed natural balance and people here know it's a good food. But it does get old when you see the same advice over and over again OK..... Don't feed NB..... Don't feed NB...., it's the worst food in the world.. My dog hates it.... Her coat is awful........ Happy now..... ;) |
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