Ear cropping?Question:I have never saw the point of cropping a dogs ears, other than for looks. I think it is cruel to do this...I don't know much on the subject so if I knew more I might have a different opinion....So I was wondering if there were any reasons behind cropping a dogs ears? Answer: It's illegal here!! Also it's illegal to dock tails for cosmetic reasons!! I personally like dogs the way nature intended!! :) Answer: Gustav, I like the natural looks too. :p Answer: Me too !!! Answer: I love a good crop on a dobe. I know people have yelled at me for it before but I just don't think they look right without it. THey were not bred to have thick ears and if they are not cropped they do rip easilly. I've seen two rescues with horribly mangled natural ears. And if you see a good crop on a dobe you know that person put more effort into it than just any regular dog owner. It isn't easy to get those ears to stand right! They show their expression through the ears and I think thats where they get the regal look to their head. We originally were not going to crop my boy because our vet convinced us it was cruel and horrible. So he gets an ear infection and the vet treats it for like three weeks running up a huge bill. We finally took him to another vet who said if we cropped him it would go away and it did(that vet didn't do the crop, it was a long drive for that). He has never had an ear infection since. He actually showed no pain after the crop and was so much better after that ear infection was gone. He hadn't even been able to move his head without pain when he had it. We obviously don't go to the first vet anymore. Many of the crops were originally done so in a fight,with people or other animals, the ears would not get injured. The breeds were bred to look right with these crops. Should they have bred them with naturally standing ears? Sure. But they didn't. My dog had no problem with it and he is the hugest baby ever. And people do have horror stories about it but that is because the look for the cheapest they can find to do the crop. It shouldn't be something cheap. I know there is a video clip somewhere of a boxer getting it done but I don't hae it bookmarked. HTere really shouldn't be much blood when it is done at all. I just wonder why it is cruel though when it really causes such miminal pain. I always wonder about that when people get their dogs fixed with no problem but that actually is a huge risk adn they are in pain(not saying it is a bad thing but I hear of dogs dying in that surgery and from complications but never from a crop). I think of my boy getting his ears done like me getting my wisdom teeth out(except I think that was more painfull!). i do think it is stupid when people do it to make their dogs look mean but I'm not going to say it should be outlawed or anything. I'm pretty sure our breeder would have been mad if we hadn't cropped(they usually got it done but litter came while they were movoing). They pour their hearts and souls into the breed and they want it to look perfect. Without the crop they just look like another hound. Here is my baby http://www.dogster.com/?23112 And believie me,if it had hurt him at all i would be the first person to say never to get it done. He is the most spoiled dog i know. I think it might be different for a lot of you because you probally haven't been around it a lot. I would expect it to hurt him a lot to. I've been around cropped dogs a long time. even though I sometimes prefer a boxer without it. I think it makes them cute! If you want to see more join this dobe forum and look through some pics and articles where they talk about it. They are all much more informed than me. http://www.network54.com/Forum/11341 -for some reason its not coming up right now. Maybe try later. There is a real good thread somewhere about to crop or not. just to add- The dobe is my breed. I love it and i wil never own anything else. I like the crop and if I didn't then i would not have looked into the breed in the first place. If it became illegal to do her eI would still own them I would just fight like hell to make it legal again. My dogs who are great,shouldn't have to suffer because some wacko vets do bad crops adn people fight their cropped dogs. Answer: I really hate cropping and docking i think its ugly and only makes the dog look meaner in a way. I know both Zeus and Babe have cropped ears but they were cropped before either dog came into my life. i often wonder what they would look like with out cropped ears like Tundra does. Oh well because of some peoples idea of what a dog should look like I will never know. Answer: I just wonder why it is cruel though when it really causes such miminal pain. I always wonder about that when people get their dogs fixed with no problem but that actually is a huge risk adn they are in pain(not saying it is a bad thing but I hear of dogs dying in that surgery and from complications but never from a crop). I think of my boy getting his ears done like me getting my wisdom teeth out(except I think that was more painfull!). i do think it is stupid when people do it to make their dogs look mean but I'm not going to say it should be outlawed or anything. I'm pretty sure our breeder would have been mad if we hadn't cropped(they usually got it done but litter came while they were movoing). They pour their hearts and souls into the breed and they want it to look perfect. Without the crop they just look like another hound. If you want to see more join this dobe forum and look through some pics and articles where they talk about it. They are all much more informed than me. http://www.network54.com/Forum/11341 -for some reason its not coming up right now. Maybe try later. There is a real good thread somewhere about to crop or not. Getting a dog spayed/neutered has a totally different reason from cropping. Spaying and Neutering are keeping the population of puppies and dogs down. If people didn't spay/neuter their dogs then we would have a very big overpopulation of dogs on the streets. Then tons of animals would be starving and being killed. Thus spaying/neutering is something that is done for good reason, cropping for cosmetic reasons are different. Looks of a dog, IMO, isn't a good reason to put the dog through any pain. But that is just what I think. I haven't heard anything yet that will change my opinion, but I will look on that site and see what they have to say on the subject. Thank you Joce for providing your information. And your dog is cute, with or without cropped ears. Oh and the vet telling you to crop your dogs ears to get rid of an ear infection is questionable. I don't understand why a vet would put a dog through all that and have you pay all that money just for an ear infection. Cropping the ears stopped the ear infection, probably because it aired out the ear canal. But I am betting that there where other ways to get rid of it, but then again I am not a vet. :rolleyes: Answer: I really don't like it, but I don't have a problem with anybody doing it. Our neighbors have done it to all three of their GSD's and they don't look any better they just look meaner, which is what they where going for. Answer: I think uncropped looks cuter and more innocent on dogs. -Jon Answer: well Rottweilers sometimes have a reason to have their Tails docked... If an intruder comes in and the dog attacks the burgaler can grab its tail and stab it in the spine my dad has seen it done Answer: Wait, cropped means making them stand, right? Scob, GSD's ears stand naturally. Answer: the first vet was an idiot for not admitting he would be fixed by getting a crop. I'll never forgive the guy for letting my dog go through all that pain just to push his cause. He even admitted it would help it later. It was better since the ear canal is aired out.The second vet was very no nonsence about it. He is my favorite vet I've ever taken them too. He used to not even charge for office visits becuase he had corgis too but his place burned down(it was a hard thing for him, he lost his office kitties) so then he had to start charging but since I respect the guy so much he could charge twice the other guy and I would stil go to him. He was my horse vet too. I really like the guy. I agree about the fixing thing its just that if you haven't seen a crop done I don't think you get that the pain is pretty much non existant. They even get pain pills. I don't think the risk is that bad with eitheir I just think its odd to say that one is ok when you could just keep your dog away from others to solve the problem.(I do think everyone should fix there dogs by the way :) ,I am just pointing out that this is like getting a mole removed compared to that surgery,like taking some cartillage off your ear). That dobe forum is great! Its not often you get to see actual showers and breeders talking and not some byb. They have the most gorgoues dogs in the world too. If I wasn't so intimadated I would love to show dobes but it seems they are one of the more competative breeds to show so I don't think I'm quite up to it. Maybe soemday! ANd the ear infection was so bad that he couldn't move his head without crying out. It was horrible. I have never seen a dog in so much pain. He couldn't have lived like that for too much longer. He couldn't even run around,he'd just sulk. It makes me want to hurt that vet thinking about it. Answer: Wait, cropped means making them stand, right? Scob, GSD's ears stand naturally. I thought it was to shorten them? Answer: Wake up and read about breeds and which are usually cropped and which have the natual ear set. I've always loved the beautiful natural ears on a GS....the well bred ones. Yes, I do think some cropping makes the head look more majectic..but if God wanted them like that He would have given them GS ears ...or many ,many other ears. I's hate to think what Chip (Golden) or Hunter (Lab) would look like cropped !! Or how about a bassett ?? Answer: cropping a dogs ears is a painful and unecasary process puppies as young as 12 weeks are put through. It makes there ears stand up, makes the dog look more agressive, especially when used on dobermans and pitbulls, this just adds to there prejudice thoughts and feelings about these particular breeds. it has no reason except for appearence, though some people will tell you it helps their ears stay clean and dry. This is not true, it has no reason. DOGS USE THEir ears in their very important body labguage, ear cropping limits this communication drasticly Answer: I really don't like it, but I don't have a problem with anybody doing it. Our neighbors have done it to all three of their GSD's and they don't look any better they just look meaner, which is what they where going for. Cropping German Shepherd ears???? They stand up on their own! I can't imagine what kind of nutburger would have GSD ears cropped - or what kind of vet would consent to do it, for that matter. No, Scob - not yelling at you, lol - you know I wouldn't - I just can't imagine . . . cropping German Shepherd ears!?! Maybe they aren't full blooded and the ears didn't stand up so they had them cropped to appear full blooded . . . :confused: Answer: in my opinion..unless a tail is damaged eg broken..it should be left alone..and cropping is just plain a sad practice to once again make the human happy..not the dog. If they give you pain pills for the dog..it is because it hurts and l look at the poor ol pitbulls ears and think how wonderful they would look if they weren't hacked off. Answer: I really hate to see a dog without its tail - so much "speech" is lost to the dog. Answer: Joce... I went to the website to look at pictures of your dog, and he is beautiful with his ears cropped... but he is ADORABLE with his ears normal. I couldn't get enough of that cute little face hiding behind his ears! Answer: I have a Corgi with a docked tail. I don't feel that it's necessary. I bought her that way. Answer: I guess it's just personal preference. Some people like it, some don't. It's kind of like plastic surgery for people. Some people will do it, some won't. It's just a matter of opoinion. Answer: only one thing different..we have the choice..they dont. mary talks so much with her tail..she has a special thump for greeting people, or making her point known..with no tail she is not a very vocal dog..tail thumping is her expression. Ears are designed for a purpose. They have interesting channels that drain away water from the face as well as the inside of the ear..dogs with standin up ears are way more prone to fly bites..i have seen the ears so bulbous from scar tissue it would break your heart..ears that fold over are not "hairy inside so their is no protection from wind and such as a shepard or a sheltie has. I am very againts ear cropping.it is just to make people happy and a dog can do that all by himself without any surgery. Answer: I have heard of taping a GSD's ears if they don't come up on their own as they should. Any well bred GSD's ears should stand up on their own without need for taping. I would never crop a dogs ears, for me I believe it is purely cosmetic. Tail docking on the other hand can have some benefits. Some breeds have very long whip like tails that split, break, etc. I personally have never owned a docked dog but I can see how it can be better health wise in some breeds. My cousin has an APBT and she is constantly breaking the end of her tail open when she is wagging it. It does not heal well and has turned into a chronic problem especially in the winter. At this time she still has her tail and will probably keep it unless infection becomes an issue. Answer: Actually, ear cropping does keep infection away better than uncropped. Air is allowed in and no yeast is able to grow. But, I do not know if I really agree with it. I work at a vet and he does these procedures. But, I am still iffy on it. I lean more towards not agreeing with it. Answer: if you keep ears cleaned out good most dogs have no problem. Tate was my only lab that had chronic yeast..and that is one out of many dogs. Maryand Victor have never had a yeast in their ears. i clean them out routinely as i do bath and nails. Answer: Cropping German Shepherd ears???? They stand up on their own! I can't imagine what kind of nutburger would have GSD ears cropped - or what kind of vet would consent to do it, for that matter. No, Scob - not yelling at you, lol - you know I wouldn't - I just can't imagine . . . cropping German Shepherd ears!?! Maybe they aren't full blooded and the ears didn't stand up so they had them cropped to appear full blooded . . . :confused: I should have said that they shortened them. Answer: Same thing, Scob. Makes you wonder, doesn't it? Answer: My Doberman is cropped and docked. The breeder has that done. The ears had minimal pain and only for a few days. Then they itched a little when cleaning them. The dog would lean into the cotton swab. The tail is docked before the nervous system is developed at about 3 or 4 days old....nop pain. The Doberman's tail is thin and whip like. It is fractured easily. The ears were originally cropped and tail docked to minimize a handle for a human foe or another dog to grab onto. As a working dog, IMO there is still a place for this. A Doberman is not suppose to look soft and cute. He is a serious protection dog and the traditional look reflects that. It is also part of the AKC written standard for the breed. The ears, being cropped actually indicate much better the dog's mood or what he is alerting to. The little tail wags full throttle and tells as much as a long tail. It's adorable actually. It has been shown in studies that the cropped ear expands the cone of sound coming in. Being a protection dog, this is important to have the maximum amount of hearing ability and directional discernment. How God intended? Did God intend that people selectively breed dogs to have floppy ears? Did God intend all the many breeds of dogs we have with all the health issues inherent in these various breeds which we have caused by our breeding them? All wild dogs have upright ears. If we're talking about human interferrence with changing dogs' traits, lets start at the beginning. http://www.trader.co.nz/vizsla/docking/ If we're talking abuse here, why not focus on real abuse. Look around at the shelters and puppy mills. Look at the nuts out there who viciously abuse their animals and put a stop to that before getting so unproportionately worried about a simple surgery. Answer: the dobes over here ears do not ripp easily and its ilegal over here Answer: The Doberman is a good argument for docking and cropping, being developed very specifically and relatively quickly for very definite temperament and physical capabilities. I've heard time and again how easily broken those fragile tails are so it's undoubtedly much kinder to dock them before the nervous system is fully developed than take the chance on painful injury later on. I think what really frosts so many people (myself included) is these thugs who trim their dogs - usually Pits, Rotties and the like - for the sole purpose of creating a vicious look. These breeds have enough problems being accepted and not discriminated against without stupid humans making things worse. Answer: i heard that dobes are dun in the police to make them look evem more viscious Answer: cropping a dogs ears is a painful and unecasary process puppies as young as 12 weeks are put through. Actually, the cropping should take place before 12 weeks. It is usually done between 7 to 10 weeks, with 7 weeks being more the "norm" so the puppies are cropped before they are placed in their new homes. All responsible breeders should have their Doberman puppies cropped before they send them home with their new owners. (But cropping does not make a breeder responsible- for example Kimberhell and HOH(who I think crops their dogs)) It makes there ears stand up, makes the dog look more agressive, especially when used on dobermans and pitbulls, this just adds to there prejudice thoughts and feelings about these particular breeds. Quite the contrary actually. In the Doberman breed, the cropped ears add to the sleek appearance of the dog. I in no way see them as looking more aggressive. DOGS USE THEir ears in their very important body labguage, ear cropping limits this communication drasticly A dog with cropped ears still has ears to communicate with. :) i heard that dobes are dun in the police to make them look evem more viscious Dobermans are actually a rare occurrence in the police force. They lack much of a coat, so the thicker-coated breeds (GSDs) mostly dominate K9-Units. I personally love a beautifully cropped Doberman Pinscher. :) Granted, I would take natural ears over any crop a common vet could pull off. Cropped ears really do make the breed quite beautiful, and the docked tail, well, where would the nubby wiggles come from without a docked tail? :) My next Dobe will be cropped, which reminds me I need to call the breeder tomorrow. Here's the PEC website: http://bakaridobes.westhost.com/publiceducation/PECEars.html Also, the DPDF that joce posted, there is thread about the subject while back. IF the search feature decides to work, I will find it and post the link here. Or you can go searching, but it's gotta be a few or more pages back. Answer: well i think that dogs are perfect just the way they are, undocked and uncropped. yes u might wonder y i am saying this wen i have a docked boxer, not our choice already dun wen puppy Answer: Wait, cropped means making them stand, right? Scob, GSD's ears stand naturally. LOL BigDog, we can't all be as lucky as Rocky with his A D O R A B L E ears. I just love looking at the picture. Sooooo precious. Answer: if you keep ears cleaned out good most dogs have no problem. Tate was my only lab that had chronic yeast..and that is one out of many dogs. Maryand Victor have never had a yeast in their ears. i clean them out routinely as i do bath and nails. Sadie will attest to that smkie. She always has something wrong with her ears no matter what I do. Its just a condition that I've learned to deal with daily. My poor baby :( Nora doesn't help by jumping and tugging at her ears either. arrrrrrrrgh Terriers! Answer: I don't know, Sadie is just prone to developing yest infections in her ears (Cocker Spaniel) I really don't have an arguement on cropping or not, but to save them from infections as a reason to crop ... ummm A cocker spaniel would look mighty funny with cropped ears. Answer: The argument about cockers vs dobes is that cockers have never been bred with cropped ears. THe breeder knows the dog is prone to the infection so should not breed the dog that is susseptable to it. In the case of the dobe though you would never know that the dog is susseptable to it if they are cropped when they are supposed to be. My dog never would have had an ear infection if he would have been cropped when the breeder normally does it. They were in the process of moving when this litter was ready so it was up to us. My boy is cute in his pic with the floppy ears but the look on his face is the one of pain I was talking about. He had to lay on stuff to sit up or he would cry with his head down. He did stay at the evil vets (and the non evil vets ) a couple nights to see if they could get rid of it and it was actually worse then. I'm glad it isn't a common problem in dobes though becuase it was a horrible experience! Answer: If anyone wants to, they can read this link: http://www.silverdobes.westhost.com/publiceducation/PECEars.html It explains why Dobermans have cropped ears. Infections are not a significant reason. Cokers were not bred to do the same job a Doberman is bred for. There would be no reason to crop a Cocker's ears. That helpfulness with infections is simply an aside to having cropped ears, more air and light, so less prone to yeast overgrowth. It is not the reason though. Answer: Doberluv, I posted the updated link above. :) Same info, just has Helayne's new address. (bakaridobes, not silvedobes) As for the DPDF search, the search feature did actually work, but there was a huge thread on color/cropping not too long ago so the pages were flooded with that. But the thread joce mentioned is on there, it'll just take some searching to find it. Answer: Oh thanks Red Hot. I didn't realize there was a newer, updated one. LOL. Say....how are you feeling? I know this is a terribly difficult time for you. I know how much you loved your boy and this crop debate is silly when you think about it. We love our dogs so much more than so many people and definitely so much more than people who are mean and nasty and abusive to their dogs. I know you gave your dog such a happy life and all the love anyone could possibly give. How anyone can equate the relatively simple surgery of ear cropping with abuse is beyond me. And as the link describes, there are functional reasons behind the cropping and IMO they still hold true. These are working dogs, protection dogs (always on call) whether they're a pet or a military dog. I do hope with some more time, your pain will ease up a little. I know it will take some time. I still miss Bonnie, my Lab and think of her all the time, but the sharpness of the pain is fading. Answer: I have no problem with cropping and docking as long as it is done by a reponsible veterinarian, not an owner. I personally love the look of the cropped/docked Doberman Pinscher. I have seen dobies that are docked and not cropped, and I personally like the cropped look. I also like the way Boxers look when they are docked. I don't like the cropped look on them though, so if I ever own a boxer it'll only be docked. Like doberluv saidThe Doberman's tail is thin and whip like. It is fractured easily. same goes for boxers. I've heard horror stories of boxers with natural tails being injured easily. Other breeds I personally think look stupid cropped/dock. I've seen a picture of a docked Labrador Retriever. Being a lab owner and lover (I've got a chocolate girl :)), I think that dog looks absolutely ridiculous. And we all know that labs constantly use their "otter tails". If it's tail can't knock a wine glass of the coffee table, it's not the tail of a true Lab. Pembroke Welsh Corgis just don't have tails. However, Cardigan Welsh Corgis have pretty long ones. Answer: Where did you see a cropped lab? That is so weird! I've seen one missing most of its ear from a racoon trying to eat it but why would someone want to crop a lab?! I couldn't even imagoine being able to get mines to stand. My corgis tail was never docked, she was born completely without. But some do need docked. Someone on here was talking about getting their pups done. Answer: joce---it's in a dog breed book, in the section about breeding. The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Dogs and Dog Breeds and Dog Care by Dr. Peter Larkin and Mike Stockman. Answer: Duh! I thought you were talking about corgi tails!Your talking about the lab ears? Can you scan a pic maybe I want to see. For some morbid reason! Answer: I love my dogs no matter what people have done to them in their lives. I've had dogs with cropped ears and docked tails, dogs with mangled ears and broken tails, dogs with missing legs and eyes, dogs with scars from burns and stab wounds, blind dogs and deaf dogs, and lots of dogs whose scars were inside. But when they come to me, it's important to me that they all know they won't have to worry about being mangled any further. I will never pay someone to chop my dog apart to make him prettier. Not my senior dogs or my puppies. Because you don't know what other scars the dog will accumulate in his lifetime. I don't want them to start life or end it with another scar as a result of my actions. Answer: Say....how are you feeling? I know this is a terribly difficult time for you. I know how much you loved your boy and this crop debate is silly when you think about it. We love our dogs so much more than so many people and definitely so much more than people who are mean and nasty and abusive to their dogs. I know you gave your dog such a happy life and all the love anyone could possibly give. How anyone can equate the relatively simple surgery of ear cropping with abuse is beyond me. And as the link describes, there are functional reasons behind the cropping and IMO they still hold true. These are working dogs, protection dogs (always on call) whether they're a pet or a military dog. I do hope with some more time, your pain will ease up a little. I know it will take some time. I still miss Bonnie, my Lab and think of her all the time, but the sharpness of the pain is fading. *sigh* I'm okay I guess. Honestly though, it still hasn't set in that's he's gone. He wasn't sick, he was fine, and then all of a sudden he's just gone. On the surface it doesn't seem logical, but knowing he had DCM and an arrhythmia I know it has to be true. I don't care if I stood there staring at him, laying there, motionless, it still feels like he's here... somewhere. Leah and Jen were very sympathetic, and at the same time trying to get me a puppy ASAP. LOL. Leah said I should call Sandi, and that she has a litter that will be ready to go soon, and Jen said she'd call Lynn, because she has a litter due May 3rd. :) I was so happy though, because I knew I couldn't wait too terribly long for another dog. The house seems so empty, and his stuff is still here, so it really just seems like Duke should be returning soon. There's still a huge bag of EVO, toys everywhere, his beds, and collars and leashes galore... I'm just missing him. I had such a long list of "To-Dos" for him, and we never got to cross off a single one. :( On the subject of cropping though, Duke had quite a funny looking crop. Actually, his ears had two different crops, so one stood and one flopped. :) I always thought it gave him character, along with his many other quirks. I'm sure Duke has many friends at the bridge to romp with, including your Bonnie girl. I will never forget him, and have been thinking of him often. Answer: Sweet Duke. I know what it's like to lose a friend. I'm glad you had him and that you two were such good friends for so long. He was a happy dobie, and you did well by him. ((((hugs)))) Answer: Ah, RedHot, when did your Duke pass? I am so sorry. I know how you are missing him; you see him out of the corner of your eye when you're at loose ends missing him, you reach out to fondle his big head absent-mindedly and your hand is as empty as the hole in your heart . . . When it is time for another one, you will know and Duke will send you the right companion. Answer: Your are so righ Renee. They also crop and dock miniature schnauzers for looks as well. First of all, I don't even see a point of people docking the tail. The person who docked TOki's tail probably didn't know what they were doing. Toki's tail is only half an inch long. IT is so short and I sometimes feel like his unbalance. He runs side ways and I blame the person who dock his tail. Answer: I don't agree with the cropping/docking of anything. There are horses that have had liposuction! :rolleyes: What is wrong with us that we put these standards on ourselves and our companions? And, no, it's not just like how some people get plastic surgery. Our babies don't have a choice. And I know that Mikey misses his tail. Poor thing. He'd wag it all the time if he could. I'd so go back and reverse that if I could. (I adopted him w/out). He licks the stub all the time. It makes me really angry that someone cut it off. I'm sure he'd love to communicate like Maverick and Nanook and all his other buddies. :( I'm sure they feel a 'phantom limb' just like other amputees. Answer: Thank you CreatureTeacher and Renee, and yes I swear there are times I see and hear him. He had shattered his right hind leg (before I got him) so he had a metal plate and a screw or two in there, and so when he would walk his joint would crack. I heard a noise that sounded just like that and I thought it was him coming down the stairs. He was such a weirdo, it's hard not to miss him. Especially the moments when I thnk he lost his mind, like when he all of a sudden caught sight of his nub, and starting chasing it. I was in tears I was laughing so hard. :) He entered my life on December 20, 2003 at 4:00pm, and left April 10, 2005 at around 11:00am. I only had a little over a year to be with my old red boy, but at a ripe 10 years I'm sure he lived a long happy life. From what I hear sudden death is a much better way to go then the long waiting process on the many medications. I try to remember that, but it's always "If I only had one more day..." Answer: I'm sorry for your loss of Duke, but know he had such a great home with you. What a lucky baby! And I do believe they come back from time to time to check on us. Answer: And I know that Mikey misses his tail. Poor thing. He'd wag it all the time if he could. I'd so go back and reverse that if I could. (I adopted him w/out). He licks the stub all the time. It makes me really angry that someone cut it off. I'm sure he'd love to communicate like Maverick and Nanook and all his other buddies. I'm sure they feel a 'phantom limb' just like other amputees. I don't know what kind of docking job was done on your dog, but that doesn't sound normal. My Dobe's tail wags just as hard as it would if it were long, just not as wide an arch... and if it were long, chances are fairly high that he'd fracture it, banging it against something, so whip like and thin these tails are. It wags and is terribly cute and he communicates just fine with it. Also, my dog never licks anymore than a dog with a long tail, nor is he bothered by it. Another thing, if you read the links here and become better educated on this subject, your mind might be more at ease. This "phantom limb" thing you speak of is physiologically not possible as the tail is (or is suppose to be) docked at 3-4 days old....before the autonomic nervous system has developed pathways to the brain telling it that there is a tail there. If the nervous system is not aware of a tail, then when it is absent, there is still no awareness of something that wasn't ever there....to the knowledge of the dog. I, myself have been in the medical field and understand anatomy and physiology, but if you'd read those links, you'd understand these things better too. To make statements without being informed medically is not such a good thing. You can make other unsuspecting people worried about something that there is no basis for. I highly recommend reading those links or other information in order to ease your worries. There is no offence meant in my post...just a concern about statements made without merit. Answer: Since Mikey was rescued, there's no way of knowing if his docking was done at that early stage or not. I could very well have been done too late and be a discomfort from time to time. A good argument for doing things properly and at the right time or not at all. Answer: Duh! I thought you were talking about corgi tails!Your talking about the lab ears? Can you scan a pic maybe I want to see. For some morbid reason! It's of a docked lab. I'll see if I can get the scanner to work so I can show you. The docked tail is a little long...the dog looks so idiotic with a docked tail. Whoever has the idea to dock a Lab is crazy, in my opinion, LOL. They look so ugly docked. Answer: Yes, that dog may have been done later, but as you know, dogs who have a leg amputated due to injury or cancer, adapt very, very well and very quickly. I still don't see that docking later would be the cause of such discomfort, as described. Perhaps something else is going on in there. I've seen some raunchy docking jobs and wonder if there's scar tissue or a bone fragment loose which could be bothering the dog. Maybe the dog is licking that area for some entirely different reason than that which it appears. A trip to the vet may shed some light. (just an idea) Answer: Whoever has the idea to dock a Lab is crazy, in my opinion, Yeah...I hear 'ya. A Lab has a thick, bushy, otter tail and it's used for swimming....a rutter. LOL. Maybe there was some medical reason for this...cancer or something. (?) Answer: This thread again makes me think of the book "Animals in Translation" by Temple Grandin. I recall her saying something to the effect of, "Just because you can do something to an animal and justify the act to yourself and others, doesn't mean you should." Answer: The docked tail is a little long...the dog looks so idiotic with a docked tail. Whoever has the idea to dock a Lab is crazy, in my opinion, LOL. They look so ugly docked. Aren't Labs that are used in hunting docked? I've heard someone say it, and they made it sound like that was just common knowledge. I guess my common knowledge just isn't up-to-date. ;) I don't understand the point though, their tails are so thick, how on earth could they get damaged in the brush?? Not to mention they are RETRIEVERS, and their tails are used for RETRIEVING water fowl, from, *gasp*, the water! Maybe some people just have a docking obsession! :p Answer: My parents bred labs for hunting and I never heard of it. I have seent hem with injured tails though. Its hard to get them to heal. Answer: No, they don't dock Lab's tails. "Just because you can do something to an animal and justify the act to yourself and others, doesn't mean you should." That's so true. But I think that quote, as good as it is, isn't appropriate to this context. I don't see anyone justifying docking tails just for the sake of justifying or, in other words, rationalizing away with excuses for doing something which is wrong. To automatically assume that this docking is wrong and imply that anyone in favor of it is wrongly justifying it is an inacurate and leading ideal. I gave my opinion and my reasons (notice the word, reasons) for being in favor of docking certain breeds tails. In my case, it's the Doberman. It is my opinion, after consuming some facts on the matter, that they are valid reasons, not merely blantant or empty justifications. Furthermore, I think it is wrong to NOT dock a Doberman's tail. In the line of work that they do and even if they aren't doing the work, their tails can become caught in something, grabbed or fractured by smacking against something. There are cases which I've personally heard about. The fact that they are very thin, very little hair or fat and long makes the odds fairly great that they will be injured at some time during their life. I'd much rather prevent that with a painless procedure at the age that it is normally done than see the pain that they would endure with a potentially serious injury. Answer: Aren't Labs that are used in hunting docked? I've heard someone say it, and they made it sound like that was just common knowledge. I guess my common knowledge just isn't up-to-date. ;) I don't understand the point though, their tails are so thick, how on earth could they get damaged in the brush?? Not to mention they are RETRIEVERS, and their tails are used for RETRIEVING water fowl, from, *gasp*, the water! Maybe some people just have a docking obsession! :p No, you don't. They have "otter tails" which they use liek rudders. They're tails are very useful to them. Answer: labradors tails are never docked unless there is a medical reason like a broken and unrepairable tail. I cannot imagine a lab without his handsome tail. Answer: I cannot imagine a lab without his handsome tail. My girl uses her tail all the time. That thing is always moving. I can't imagine her without her tail. My Aunt has a Boxer mix (probably some Lab, too), and all her litter mates were docked. She's glad Browny isn't because she uses her tail so much. Answer: No, they don't dock Lab's tails. No, you don't. They have "otter tails" which they use liek rudders. They're tails are very useful to them. I know Labs' tails aren't docked, I'm just giving you a possible explanation for the docked Lab. :) If you do a PF search you may find a few, I've seen several on there before, and the "field/working" dog thing was given as the reason. I believe there was even one at the HCHS, and again the "working/hunting dog" thing was put as a possible explanation on his page. I realize their tails are used to retrieve things from the water, which is why I gave such a sarcastic response. :) Answer: Here is the picture, for anyone interested (dog at the top of the page)... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v638/gaddymep9/dockedlab.jpg Answer: Looks to me like the lab's tail may just be swung over to the side and the picture cropping makes it look docked. It is not common practice to dock labs. I think this is just a photo glitch. Someone mentioned earlier that to crop ears is to shorten them. Some breeds like Great Danes and dobies have the full lenght left on, while breeds like pits are usually cut shorter. Answer: Weird. Well, that is not the norm. Maybe he got his tail broken at one time and it had to be amputated. Answer: Hey Showpug...I see that possibility now... it almost looks like it is bent sideways and out of the way of the picture. Hmmmm. Yes, my Doberman's ears are the full length. The tip that was there at birth is still there. He has what's called a show crop. Some are a little shorter and called a pet crop and some are shorter still and called a working crop. Within all these different types are various shapes made as well. Some leave on more bell and some are quite narrow, such as Lyric's. Answer: That's what I thought, the tail was wagging to the right. Answer: Ear cutting and cropping is completely normal. Considering pups dont feel a thing.... If you dont like it, dont do it. End of story. The next person that tells me how cruel it was for my dog to loose ears on the street is getting my boot up their a**. Its disrespectful and implies that im cruel to my own dog. :mad: Answer: Loose ears? Anyway, I'm a bit divided on this issue. Dobes, maybe. I agree with the arguments for working dobes, and the tail thing. But here in australia very few dobes do any work of the sort. Fortunatly ear cropping is banned where i live, possibly because so many **** bogans want it done on every dog they get. It is not uncommon to hear of a person taping their dogs legs together and their mouths shut, before taking a pair of scissors to their ears.*shudder* I tend to lean more towards creature teachers earlier comments. I work in an animal shelter and there are things i wish i hadn't seen. |
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