The Slippery Slope - BSL

Question:
 Has anyone read the May addition of Dogs in Canada? There is an article that shows you which breeds are possibly "up next" for the Breed ban. Some of them are quite ridiculous... here they are;
And yup.. every single one of these breed specimens looks vicious..
Akita
http://www.thedogplace.com/Reference/Akita/averag2.jpg
Alaskan Malamute
http://home-3.worldonline.nl/~kinuchas/dames/chanuk/fotoboek/kime/kimemetkinderen.jpg
American Bulldog
http://www.boydsbulldogs.com/photos/Mikkid.jpg
Belgian Malinois
http://www.dantero.com/images/zara_kids2.jpg

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Boerboel
http://www.bulldoginformation.com/boerboel-3.jpg
Bull Terrier
http://www.kenandaibullterriers.com/Images/kennel_kids.jpg
BullMastiff
http://www.bullmastiffsofsteelmaz.com/Duke%20&%20the%20kids.jpg
Cane Corso
http://chargingrhinocanecorso.com/Images/O%20Kids.jpg

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Chinese Shar-Pei
http://www.kanines.com/Graphics/Snapshots/DogWithBaby.jpg
Chow Chow
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/4682/pictures/miki-4.jpg
Doberman Pinscher
http://www.puppypoopy.com/puppypoopy2000/doberman/db14.jpg
Dogo Argentino
http://www.safekidssafedogs.com/assets/images/The_weightpuller...3

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German Shepherd Dog
http://www.germelhaus.com/Leia%20and%20kids.JPG
Great Dane
http://www.gentlegiantsrescue.com/images/kids%20and%20Danes%202%20640.jpg
Irish Wolfhound
http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/images10/IrishWolfhoundKids.jpg
Mastiff
http://www.conceptsdesign.com/mastiff/images/images/mya__and_kids.jpg

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Perro de Presa Canario
http://www.kutya.hu/0108/images/04-5.jpg
Rottweiler
http://www.viewit.com/CiCiOutdoorRetailer/Images/Image(124)CiCiKids.jpg
Scottish Deerhound
http://www.gentlegiantsrescue.com/images/10.jpg
Siberian Husky
http://www.angelsofthesnow.com/PopeyePals.jpg

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Tosa Inu
http://tosa-inu.com/Links%20Japan%20Tosa/images/HOSHI_KIDS2.jpg
*end of the possible banning list..*
Ridiculous huh..

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I was reading the same thing a while back and it is absolutely ridiculous. Banning any breed upsets me to no end.

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Working in the training end of things, it makes even less sense. I'm just baffled at how exactly they came up with the list that they did. It goes completely against any stat (although most stats are dirty anyway).
Some on there don't really surprise me, it makes me sick but not really surprised..but others...I just don't know how the heck:confused: :confused: :mad:
BSL is just about the dumbest idea ever conceived. Pure ignorance..

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Why dont they just ban ALL dogs with teeth...oh wait they all have teeth, my bad. :rolleyes:

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I know what you mean Dr2Little!!
I was just absolutely shocked when I saw the Irish Wolfie on there... lol They are such gentle giants!!
The whole thing POs me..

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I like Gaddy's signature's defininiton of BSL: Bull Sh*t Law
It's hard to tell because of the picture size, but isn't that a Fila in the Presa Canario picture?

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It's just awful! Where is the science in all this? One breed is not genetically different from another and there is no way to differentiate DNA-wise any difference in breed. Dogs are dogs are dogs are dogs. They act like these different breeds are some different specie. How can they do this legally? It's completely illogical. Haven't there been expert witnesses, real experts who testify and give enough case histories and some biology which show that it is the irresponsible owners and not the particular breed? How is it that the government has so much control? Is it the citizens that want this or law makers? It's insane and the most stupid, unscientific B**s**t imaginable. Wow, I hope there will be more of a fight with some substantial and compelling ammunition. There's a huge risk of losing all kinds of our dogs. Just unbelieveabe!:yikes:

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I like Gaddy's signature's defininiton of BSL: Bull Sh*t Law
It's hard to tell because of the picture size, but isn't that a Fila in the Presa Canario picture?
I was thinking the exact same thing :confused:

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Zoom - thats what I had thought when I found the pic.. but It says its a Presa lol so no clue..

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Ah that list is s**t! It kills me to see a Malamute on it! Such loving dogs :(

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Has this actually been proposed? Who's talking about doing it? Links to any articles and legislator contacts would be awesome, so I can share with Pit Bull people who'd be willing to come out and fight (again).
Are they banning dogs based on height? If not, I don't understand why the Irish Wolfhound and Scottish Deerhound would be on there. Unless they're just eliminating dogs because the original purpose of their breeding is null and void.

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This was posted on another list I belong to:
>>>
This article is from My Dog Votes (see www.dogpolitics. com ):
MSN Is The New BSL - How To Exterminate A Breed Through "Kindness"
MSN Is The New BSL - Exterminating A Breed Through "Kindness"
Would the world be a better place without pitbulls and Rottweilers
and other "dangerous breeds"? Best Friends Animal Society thinks so.
In a stinging betrayal to dog lovers who are valiantly fighting breed-
specific laws and measures, and a slap in the face to those dog
lovers with Democratic, progressive or left-leaning politics, Best
Friends Animal Society is holding a "Dangerous Dogs Summit" this
weekend in the Denver area to help identify the issues and "craft
legislation" based on a European solutions", aided by heavyweight
Deocratic political media strategist, Joe Trippi.
Let's just red flag those words -"European Solutions" - and translate
that to "Final Solution". That' means you better get ready for the
next onslaught of BSL - Breed Specific Legislation - which has taken
on a new and evil genius twist - Mandatory/spay neuter of those
targeted breeds.
That's right, breed extermination coming to a city near you in the
form of mandatory spay/neuter or a complete ban on breeding of
targeted breeds, all served up with a sickening sweet sugar coating,
with a cherry on top, compliments of Best Friends and positioned
as "progressive" and executed by Democratic media demi-god, Joe
Trippi.
Why do I think that?
Best Friends promotional literature for the conference acknowledges
so-called "dangerous breeds" -Download BestFriends. pdf
"Best Friends 3 Point Plan":
"Best Friends is putting together a national initiative that
addresses the basic problem of people breeding aggressive dogs:
It acknowledges there are dangerous breeds, and that aggressive
tendencies have now been bred into their genes
It includes legislation making it illegal to breed aggression into
dogs
It goes after people who are breeding aggressive dogs, rather than
simply the dogs themselves"
Best Friends lack of knowledge about canine aggression is truly
frightening - or perhaps even more frightening is the thought that
Best Friends would rather advance their own agenda by deliberately
misinforming the public and legislators. Which do you think is more
likely?
So now the question you much ask - who are the "experts'' that are
speaking in support of Best Friends efforts? Which leading canine
experts are on the roster? Which leading anti-BSL crusaders are
featured?
The answer is: None. That's right - no anti-BSL crusaders nor are
there any experts in canine behavior or aggression.
That's right - zero. But that won't stop Best Friends from trying to
set themselves up as the defacto experts in dangerous dogs. Like
Martha says, fake it till you make it.
To fill the roster at their conference, Best Friends has gone out and
rustled up quite a few animal control people - who FAVOR BSL. Oh
yea - there's Tammy Grimes - who has no standing in the BSL community
whatsoever - other than she just signed up to join a BSL Yahoo Group
a mere 3 weeks ago.
Where Are The Experts?
Declining to speak at the Best Friends conference, Diane Jessup,
renowned canine expert and author, wrote:
"I applaud Best Friends' efforts to open debate on the issue of
dangerous (dog) ownership practices. While I do not believe there is
an "epidemic" of dog attacks nor fatalities given the mathematics of
human/canine interaction, certain innocent dogs, breeds and people
are paying the price for the media induced hysteria and fad cycles in
pet ownership. I do strongly wish BF had foreseen the unintended
consequences of calling this event a dangerous "dog" conference, as
obviously a dog can only be as dangerous as its owner allows it to
be. I am also saddened to see that BF is taking the path
of "dangerous breeds" and considering natural canine behaviors often
termed "aggression" as an "issue". The issue has been and always will
be - ownership practices."
What's the REAL Agenda?
Best Friends has a clear agenda and that is to use to issue of
dangerous dogs as a means to advance an agenda that can only be
detrimental to the future of the dogs we love:
American Pit Bull Terriers
American Staffordshire Terries
Staffordshire Bull Terriers
Bull Terriers
American Bullies
American Bulldogs
Rottweilers
Mastiffs
Doberman Pinschers
Airedale Terriers
Belgian Malinois
Belgian Teruvan
German Shepherd
You should know that any Bull breeds, Guardian breeds or any working
dogs are at risk from the Best Friends "dangerous dogs" initiative.
Addressing Dangerous Dogs
Protecting the public health and safety, and protecting and saving
innocent dogs will only come through actully do the work of enforcing
dangerous dog laws, actually enforcing leash laws, actually place
the emphasis on owner behavior by addressing irresponsible ownership,
negligent ownership, criminal ownership.
What I see instead is an effort by Best Friends to eliminate the
future of specific breeds of dogs under the cloak of protecting the
public though yet another anti-breeding initiative.
Because if you eliminate the breeding of Rottweilers or Pitbulls,
there won't be any Rottweilers or Pitbulls, will there?
A Sugar-Coated Poison Pill
For a long time, Best Friends has been respected from dog lovers and
dog fanciers, reaping in a whole lotta revenue for their efforts.
But now this is where the rubber meets the road.
Best Friends is offering a sugar-coated poison pill, and Joe Trippi's
involvement is a huge slap in the face to every Dem or progressive
that has fought against breed-specific measures across the country.
Democratic and Progressive dog lovers are now wondering if Joe
Trippi, if not the Democratic Party, has betrayed them as well.
Best Friends and Joe Trippi are launching a revolution to exterminate
dogs with kindness.
The question is - will you go quietly?
>>>
BSL is really taking on momentum. Its crazy.
Cole's Mom

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I personally hope that a proposed ban passes here ..........banning owners from chaining dogs out at night !

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Thanks Cole's Mom. What the heck though? Where ARE the experts? Where are the scientists, ethologists, biologists, animal trainers, behaviorists? Behavior departments in universities? How come some well known, educated people in the field aren't getting involved? How can they be encouraged? What can we do? There is simply no science in this at all. It's all based on rumor and a few bite incidents, no proof whatsoever that it's on account of the breed that some particular dog bit someone. There is NO gene for aggression. That is epigenetic. Where are the scientists? What can we do? It really freaks me out, that article.

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Just looking at these pictures I can see why these dogs need banned..ASAP! I mean just look at how vicious and cold-killed they are. For example we have a Doberman up here about to attack a kid whose holding his toy...look at how wide open his mouth is! And a Sharpei that looks like he's preparing to eat that baby! The only dogs in that list that aren't about to kill their loving family are the ones who are asleep...and that's just because they haven't mastered "biting and maiming while sleeping" yet, an ever important skill for all these vicious killer breeds!
/end Sarcasm
Seriously, now! How can they think to ban all these wonderful breeds...how did most of them even get on the list? What is this, a "Ban any dog over 20 lbs" or "Ban all large dogs" list? I don't think any dogs should be banned, but sometimes I wonder about people who assume toy dogs or smaller dogs are so cute and innocent when they can just as tenacious and viscious as bigger dogs, sometimes more so. I would hate to have a world with only small dogs...I prefer the large breeds for the most part, the "real" dogs.

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Hi Coles mom... for some reason, I can't display page of site you referanced. Do you have access to list of Best Friends members and speakers on roster for conference? Sounds like their intensions should be taken seriously and I find the media works both ways, can be used to make the right people aware of this, as well. Also, are you taking about "the Tammy Grimes" in previous thread on this site? If so, that's excellent... the more people like that allowed to become members of this group, the more damage that does to their credibility. Just curious about members list and speakers roster.

Answer:
I personally hope that a proposed ban passes here ..........banning owners from chaining dogs out at night !
Please don't try to hi-jack such an important thread with such an ignorant, inflammatory statement.
As to the real topic, ALL dog owner's, no matter the breed, must join together to stop this from happening. BSL has never been proven to work as it is represented to. After they ban all the larger breeds they WILL move onto the smaller one. It's a vicious cycle of extermination of perfectly good animals based on media influence and the promotion of false information. Our rights are being taken over by Big Brother Government and it will not stop until we make enough noise against these laws, forcing them, and the people who listen to them, to acknowledge the truth.
BSL sucks.....

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cole's mom. that summit took place last weekend. i've heard two different responses to it. one was from a pit bull owner and bsl activist. she said it was Very Scary. the other was from some non-"endangered breed" owner and she said it was great and they aren't *really* proposing what it sounds like they're proposing. i find it all extremely scary.
i wish these politicians would clue in to the fact that bsl is 1) EXPENSIVE and 2) ineffective. it's so friggen stupid.
sometimes i get hopeful in that this kind of proposal will wake up some more people, wake up some more breed clubs, get the registries (say, the AKC??!) upset enough to get off their butts and ACT.
the only breeds on the list that i don't "understand" are the wolfhound and the deerhound. i imagine they're only on there because they're big. the rest of them either have a significant number of deaths under their breed's collective belt, they're "traditionally" eeevil (or like the malinois, they're "like" a breed that's traditionally evil), they're grouped in with the eeeevil pit bulls (and here's i'd put all the mastiff breeds. mastiffs are the new pit bull.), or they're fighting dogs. it's all sad and stupid.
but no more sad and stupid than pit bull bans :(

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I don't think any dogs should be banned, but sometimes I wonder about people who assume toy dogs or smaller dogs are so cute and innocent when they can just as tenacious and viscous as bigger dogs, sometimes more so. I would hate to have a world with only small dogs...I prefer the large breeds for the most part, the "real" dogs.
That's again making generalizations though, just like they're doing with these breeds on the list. Small breeds aren't more vicious than large breeds and visa versa. It's individual dogs and their owners. If someone uses that as ammunition against BBL, they would be inadvertantly supporting the people who are for BBL because they'd be stooping to the their mentality (ruling out certain breeds) which is what is fueling this whole thing.
The vast majority of dogs who are vicious are caused by lousy owner handling whether it's a small breed or large. Dogs are dogs. They all have the same ability to bite. They're canines with the inherent instincts. There are some variations in the breeds, sure. But that again boils down to owner handling. What should be attacked rather than the dogs themselves (as in breed bans) are the owners, the irresponsible owners. If a dog attacks someone, that dog should be put down and the owner should pay. But to eliminate an entire population of dogs is unscientific and going after the wrong perpetrator. There are oodles of mixed breed dogs and dogs not on their list who bite too. I was bitten by a mixed breed dog....a Lab mix.
It's just wrong and I don't see how the people are allowing the government to do this. Are they just being swayed by lies and the stupidity of it all?

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It's just wrong and I don't see how the people are allowing the government to do this. Are they just being swayed by lies and the stupidity of it all?
because they think it won't happen to them. they don't own "those kinds of dogs". they own "nice" dogs who "would never hurt a fly".
"first they came for the jews"

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So how long do you think it would take us to organize a write-in campaign for a Chaz candidate on the ballot? I mean seriously, where better to find a person who understands the ins and outs of dog-dom?

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Originally Posted by bubbatd
I personally hope that a proposed ban passes here ..........banning owners from chaining dogs out at night !
Please don't try to hi-jack such an important thread with such an ignorant, inflammatory statement.
As to the real topic, ALL dog owner's, no matter the breed, must join together to stop this from happening. BSL has never been proven to work as it is represented to. After they ban all the larger breeds they WILL move onto the smaller one. It's a vicious cycle of extermination of perfectly good animals based on media influence and the promotion of false information. Our rights are being taken over by Big Brother Government and it will not stop until we make enough noise against these laws, forcing them, and the people who listen to them, to acknowledge the truth.
BSL sucks.....
Grammy wasn't hijacking the thread, and it wasn't an ignorant statement! I think you misunderstood what was written; as it says she hopes the ban that forbids owners from chaining their dogs at night passes...
We're all very aware how serious BSL is, and how much it sucks. Attacking such an important member to Chaz isn't helping the original issue either...
____________
I honestly don't think a ban like this could ever pass. There are a lot of dog owners / lovers out there, and people with basic common sense that would never allow this...
We just have to *do* something about it..
I'll vote for Renee, Zoom ;) :lol-sign:

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Me too!
Renee in '07! "The Dog's Best Friend"

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Here's a couple pictures of one of my Siberians, Haluna... Oh yes, BAN them QUICK! Look, she's TASTING that little boy!!! :lol-sign:
http://www.lakotasong.com/lunaboy.jpg
http://www.lakotasong.com/lunalove.jpg

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Please don't try to hi-jack such an important thread with such an ignorant, inflammatory statement
Huh?????
I agree with Grammy. They ought to ban tying dogs up at night or for any long period for that matter. As long as we're talking about bans, there's a ban which SHOULD be put into affect.
I hate to tell you, but Grammy is NOT ignorant. She's a very wise woman who's a long standing member and very respected here and she's not hijacking the thread. That's not for you to determine. That is for moderators to determine.
There is nothing inflamatory about her statement, but there is with yours. Your statement is completely irrelevant and nasty. Attacking remarks like that will not be tolerated.

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I honestly don't think a ban like this could ever pass. There are a lot of dog owners / lovers out there, and people with basic common sense that would never allow this...
We just have to *do* something about it..
That's what you'd think all right. But the problem is, that it already HAS begun...with Pit Bulls. They'll start with that breed and then gain momentum...running out breeds like a combine going through a wheat field. Yes, we need to do something about it. I'd like to find out how and what I can do as an individual dog owner.

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Hi Coles mom... for some reason, I can't display page of site you referanced. Do you have access to list of Best Friends members and speakers on roster for conference? Sounds like their intensions should be taken seriously and I find the media works both ways, can be used to make the right people aware of this, as well. Also, are you taking about "the Tammy Grimes" in previous thread on this site? If so, that's excellent... the more people like that allowed to become members of this group, the more damage that does to their credibility. Just curious about members list and speakers roster.
I think the problem is the space in the url. Try this one:
www.dogpolitics.com
Pit bulls and other bully breeds have been banned in the Denver area. I am sure they have been banned in some Canadian cities also. The DPCA and the parent Rottie club have been very active in fighting BSL. They have defeated some attempts in CA and Kansas. These laws are cropping up everywhere.
Cole's Mom

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Zoom - your right.. I think we should put together a letter from ALL of the Chaz members or something.

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I think we should put together a letter from ALL of the Chaz members or something.
I think a letter should be made to implore people with real credentials, people with clout such as experts in this; famous behavioral scientists, trainers, genetic experts, whomever....who can show some real evidence and solid back-up for the argument...etc. Those are the people we need to fight at the front line for these breeds. Maybe a list of pertinent experts and letters to them. (?)

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I would like to know how much money the government has put into BSL. Seriously. So much valuable $ that could go to HELPING dogs. Money that could go to animal shelters and beefing up animal control departments so people wouldn't get away with neglect and carelessness as much as they do now.

BSL is a band-aid. If someone stabs another person with a knife, and the government takes knives away, that's not addressing the issue at hand. No different than BSL - the issue is not these wonderful dogs, it's the friggin idiots that aren't careful with them.

It's a waste. Of money, of people's time . . . I have no idea why dogs are targeted, either. How many people are killed by dogs each year? I don't know the exact statistics, but I'm willing to bet that very few are killed by dogs in comparison to being killed by other humans, car crashes, slipping on ice, drowning in a mud puddle, annhialation by a spork, etc.

I hate that people don't care because it doesn't affect their breed. It will affect their breed someday. If this keeps up, one day I won't be allowed to own my Border Collie. People will have their Goldens taken away because they're obviously dangerous creatures. One day dogs will be banned entirely. If anything poses a threat to all dogs, it's BSL.

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One day dogs will be banned entirely.
That's PETA's goal :(

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That's PETA's goal :(
No kidding. :( Unfortunately they may just get what they want - PETA's pretty influential and can sugarcoat the horrible things that they condone, just as well as they can turn something decent into a horrific case of abuse.

If I'm going to have pets, I always want to have at least one dog. I'll leave the country before I'll let them take away that right.

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didnt someone make a thread bout doing something about this?

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This is an interesting site:
http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/statistics.html
Cole's Mom

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Thanks gals for sticking up for me . Yes, I was misunderstood . They wanted to ban Pitties and Rotties here . Now they are thinking by having a chaining law , it would cut down on those who raise " bad dogs " . Back to a very serious thread ....count me in on signing !

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Pit bulls and other bully breeds have been banned in the Denver area. I am sure they have been banned in some Canadian cities also. The DPCA and the parent Rottie club have been very active in fighting BSL. They have defeated some attempts in CA and Kansas. These laws are cropping up everywhere.
Cole's Mom
listing of places where BSL is currently in effect (http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/Locations/BSLListings.htm)
dog legislation council of canida (http://www.doglegislationcouncilcanada.org/home.html) has a terrific webpage that includes information on the financial cost of bsl, as well as all kinds of other stuff. they're currently fighting the pit bull ban in ontario.

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That is interesting Cole. Thanks for posting.
Grammy, your comment about chaining up dogs is VERY pertinent as a matter of fact. That is one big cause of aggression. If chaining would be banned, that would be one link in the chain of prevention of aggression. It is ALL about owner responsibility.
Elegy..we posted together so I missed yours...gonna go take a look at those links.

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Here are a couple of others.
http://www.dogbitelegalcenter.com/resources/dogbite-statistics.html
http://www.fataldogattacks.com/
Cole's Mom

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Please don't try to hi-jack such an important thread with such an ignorant, inflammatory statement.
As to the real topic, ALL dog owner's, no matter the breed, must join together to stop this from happening. BSL has never been proven to work as it is represented to. After they ban all the larger breeds they WILL move onto the smaller one. It's a vicious cycle of extermination of perfectly good animals based on media influence and the promotion of false information. Our rights are being taken over by Big Brother Government and it will not stop until we make enough noise against these laws, forcing them, and the people who listen to them, to acknowledge the truth.
BSL sucks.....
Wow, calm down....no need to get your panties in a twist.
When talking about BSL, chaining issues are irrelevant to BSL laws. Therefor, any comment on chaining is irrelevant to the thread. If you want to discuss chaining, I would be more than willing to do so....On a different thread.
I live in Ontario where BSL is taken very seriously and to start a side issue that is very inflammatory to certain people takes away from the discussion.
I was not rude or nasty and I attacked no-one, contrary to what you are now doing to me.
Ignorant means uninformed, not stupid.....To make such a blanket type comment about chaining is ignorant.
I have had the unfortunate experience of having to kill APBT's at the SPCA I worked at because of the breed they were, perfectly fine animals with good temperaments.
I take BSL very personally having lost my dogs to the law. I refuse to spay or neuter my dogs and to keep them safe had to ship them out of Ontario. These were quality animals that I spent many years working with and miss deeply.
Now, if you all are done attacking me, lets please continue discussing the thread at hand. BSL

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the fatal dog attacks *book* is an excellent resource as well. also, dogs bite but balloons and slippers are more dangerous by janis bradley.
and not immediately pertaining to BSL or dog bites, but culture of fear: why americans are afraid of the wrong things by barry glassner is worth the time, too.

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No comment , Drycreek . I think you missed the whole point.

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Please don't try to hi-jack such an important thread with such an ignorant, inflammatory statement.

I see with seven posts you are quite new to participating on this forum. PLease take the time to read and know some of the members and issues on hand here before coming to conclusions. We have an excellent Mod crew on Chazhound and if you think someone 'hijacked' a thread or is abusive, you may report it via PM to a Moderator or myself and it is usually handled promptly.

I echo the Moderators, Grammy's post was not an ignorant or inflammatory statement. I will take it that the verbage and tone you used was inspired by your passion against Breed Specific Legislation and not just being mean.

I do agree with you though... BSL sucks....

Chazhound

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Coles mom... I'll check sites you listed. Interested in a letter that is distributed to the "right individuals". Recognised behaviorist, psychologists, trainers and veterinarians. I know the list I have in mind, starting with Dr. Dunbar, Dr. S Coren, Dr. N. Dodman all who happen to own some of these breeds! They would be excellent supporters at the top of the list from a "Chaz protest letter", protesting these bans and why these experts are against it. That's why I'd also like to see the "Best Friends" list of experts. As for the Irish Wolfhounds being added to the list, several have mentioned... I believe I know why that came about. Year before last, at a very large dog show in the U.S. 2 dogs "posturing" outside of a ring, a growl here, growl there, tried to pass each other in the isleway. Both the small breed and the Irish Wolfhound lunged at each other. The Irish got ahold of the other dog and killed it in front of all of the spectators, kids, other exhibitors and judges. It was written up in most of the show magazines, AKC articles. I will try to find it. A devastating day for the handlers, owners and dogs involved.

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Year before last, at a very large dog show in the U.S. 2 dogs "posturing" outside of a ring, a growl here, growl there, tried to pass each other in the isleway. Both the small breed and the Irish Wolfhound lunged at each other. The Irish got ahold of the other dog and killed it in front of all of the spectators, kids, other exhibitors and judges. It was written up in most of the show magazines, AKC articles. I will try to find it. A devastating day for the handlers, owners and dogs involved.
I remember that, how horrible.

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Banning an Irish Wolfhound?!?!?! :yikes:
WTF why??
Whoever made that list has never owned one before....
"watch out... I may be vicious"
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h315/IrishWoofhound/binn22.jpg

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Without having seen the event, I'm more inclined to believe that was an accident of two intact dogs just having hate-on-first-sight issues and less of a breed thing.

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Wow, calm down....no need to get your panties in a twist.
When talking about BSL, chaining issues are irrelevant to BSL laws. Therefor, any comment on chaining is irrelevant to the thread. If you want to discuss chaining, I would be more than willing to do so....On a different thread.
I live in Ontario where BSL is taken very seriously and to start a side issue that is very inflammatory to certain people takes away from the discussion.
I was not rude or nasty and I attacked no-one, contrary to what you are now doing to me.
Ignorant means uninformed, not stupid.....To make such a blanket type comment about chaining is ignorant.
I take BSL very personally having lost my dogs to the law. I refuse to spay or neuter my dogs and to keep them safe had to ship them out of Ontario.
Dry creek. I will give you some good advice like the others have. Calm down
and take a step back. (doing highlights in red along with your words makes you look angry in this thread)
Here are my red flags (do not accuse me of thread hijacking because you where the one who posted some of them in your thread out of the blue and off the topic at hand)
1) You thinking its inflammatory that people do not like chained dogs
2) You not neutering your dogs
3) Giving up your dogs because refused to follow the law and neuter them.
(I live in ontario and know the law very well, so I know what you are referring to)
If you want to discuss these you can pm me or open up a new thread.

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After reading the previous posts, I am hoping not to get off track. Just wanted to add this info. My homeowners insurance contacted me to "update" their info, after I had a claim. One of the questions they asked was what kind of dogs I had. I refused to answer their questions until they answered mine. My question was WHY are you asking?? They then proceded to give me a ridiculous list of dogs , and said that if I have any of those dogs, I would be dropped from homeowners coverage. I asked what the criteria was in coming up with the list, and they said that it was the kind of damage these dogs could do IF they bit, not necessarily that the dogs often bite. Then I was told that some little dogs can be snippy, but they can't do the damage. It all boils down to money........they don't want to pay if a dog causes major damage. I don't know much about the organization that was mentioned previously, but I am going to try to learn about it.

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Ugh! That is insane :(
I am so sick of BSL. I wish that people would understand that it isn't the dog, it's the owner.

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MyIrishwolfie, your babies the cutest! As a trainer who specializes in behavioral modification of aggressive dogs, who owns a Dobie, shows all-breed, primarily working, herding and some terrier, I have a great deal of concern for this and hope Chaz members will join me in putting together a letter, of sorts, to distribute to some industry pros. I have been attacked 3 times in 24 years. Only one of these incidenses involved a "best friends" listed breed. The first, an intact male Chesapeke whose owner dropped the lead in class and her dog went after a male Rott. A very bloody fight ensued and I had no choice but to try to break it up after kids exited the room and myself and the dogs owners were left. It was the Chessie who turned on me and latched onto my thigh, sending me to the hospital. (Not the Rott) The next, 3 yrs later a male Am staff mix bit me in the side of the head as I was seated, speaking to a group class. The owner entering my training building, extended her flexilead and couldn't retract it in time. She came to the wrong room. Was suppose to check in w/office to enter the dog in a month of board and train w/me. As I stood from my chair and went to take his collar as he was coming up, he got me. The third, Sharpei, who latched onto my arm from a seated position, launching himself at me. Another trip to the hopsital, stitches, ect. All of these incidenses happened in the first 7 yrs of my training career. All of these were avoidable and I have learned to deal with them differently now. None of these issues were breed specific. I've had no more problem with these dogs intent to do damage than I have certain Cocker Spanials and Poodles who've goten a bite in on me during my early days of grooming. The problem is large breeds obviously do more damage and that means no large breed dog is safe from being added to these ban lists someday. If you let them ban one, many more will follow.

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I think there are many "grass roots" things we can do as individuals, in addition to encouraging the well-known behaviorists, doctors, and trainers to speak up.
First, we can each make sure that our own dogs are well-behaved, under-control members of society. We need to socialize properly, train consistently and teach our dogs how to act around other people and dogs. The worst thing we can do is have poorly behaved dogs that propagate the concept of being aggressive, and any dog that is reactive to people or other dogs works against us when it comes to BSL.
Second, we can take our well-behaved dogs out in public and talk with people. Show what a nice dog you have, tell people how you are working against breed bans and PROVE to them that your breed is more than teeth and hackles.
Third, offer to take your dogs to meetings - city meetings, legislative meetings, etc. - and talk about how important dogs are to the social growth of children, how they provide therapeutic effects for large numbers of people, and tell them how many voters have dogs. Write up a good speech and play on the emotions of those listening (many will have dogs of their own).
We may not be able to get to the big events, but we can set the wheels in motion in our own areas. Maybe we can even put together something here on chazhound that can be used as a speech or even a letter to the editor for your hometown newspaper.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska

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What exactly does a ban mean? Do they just not allow the dogs into the country or you are not allowed to breed them? Surely all of those dogs can't be dangerous?

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carlar- it depends on the place and on the law. there are places, like denver, that pit bulls are illegal. if you get caught with one, they'll take it and kill it. period.
other places, such as ontario, allow existing pit bulls to still be there provided that they are spayed/neutered, muzzled at all times off their property, and nine zillion other little things.
in some places it means spay/neuter, in some places it means muzzle, in some places it means a ridiculous amount of liability insurance, in some places it means death.
BSan-- a lot of insurance companies are like that. ones that are not are few and far between.
one thing that i really wish is for more people who do not own "dangerous breeds" to get involved.