Cropping ears at home.

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 On another forum that I haunt, there was a thread yesterday by a man asking about cropping a dogs ears, and could he do it himself at home. Didn't think it was any big thing, and shouldn't hurt too much. OMG:yikes:

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:yikes: What is he thinking?!?! I hope someone can talk some sense into him...it's sad to think that this probably happens all the time with people cropping and docking their own pups and I'm sure if they can't pay a vet for that, they can't get routine care; vaccinations, speutering, flea and tick preventative, etc.
Max's ears are done, but they were done before I got him, and were done professionally. If he would have come to me "natural" I would have left him that way. I just don't understand some people's thought process...:mad:

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This was on game dog forum, and he was read the riot act. I told him that I would get my p inking shears, and give his ears a little nip and tuck. See if that hurt.

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What a jerk. It amazes me that there are people that dumb that inhabit the earth,,,

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OMG that's terrible! It's monsters like that that give cropping a bad name... :mad:

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I don't think it's about dumb really. It may be more of an uneducated situation. My great grandfather was a chi breeder and he cropped his dogs ears himself. Times have changed as far as awareness. You can't expect everyone to be aware. The best you can do is hope that they will take what you have to say to heart.
I honestly don't think attacking someone is the the right way to handle the situation. You could frustrate them to the point of them taking it out on the puppies.

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Can you give us the link to the thread, or post his response? I want to know what he says.
~Tucker

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Ugh. That's sickening. Although I'm not a fan of cropping anyway, if you're going to do it, have someone experienced do it properly! People!
OT: That reminds me of when my friend's pound rescue. . .the former owners tried to dock the dog's tail. . .as an adult. :mad: :(

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i agree that its probably not stupidness... but ignorance.
people sometimes dont understand or know better.

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I don't know h ow to get the site, but it is on Pitbull community.

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I sure hope someone educates him! As much as I love a good crop on some breeds I only agree with it if it is done properly!

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Firstly I just don't understand why anyone would prefer the look of a mutilated dog over a natural one, and secondly why would you put any dog through the pain of a medical procedure for the sake of fashion. :confused: :mad:

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Actually for some of the breeds I hope to own and the stuff I''d like to do with them, cropping isn''t for cosmetics, it''s for health and safety!

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Cropping doesn't bother me. But cutting off a pup's ears without the benefit of anethesia has got to be an ugly thing to witness. Personally, I've never seen a home crop that looked good.

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Cropping doesn't bother me. But cutting off a pup's ears without the benefit of anethesia has got to be an ugly thing to witness. Personally, I've never seen a home crop that looked good.
Um...so you've actually seen `home' crops??? God how nauseating - how did you manage to not rant at the owners?? :(

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Actually for some of the breeds I hope to own and the stuff I''d like to do with them, cropping isn''t for cosmetics, it''s for health and safety!
Go on then humour me... health and safety? :popcorn:

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Health:
A breed such as a Cane Corso has very thick, heavy ears that hang down. Even with thorough cleaning often, moisture gets trapped inside the ear and it is also very dark and warm which is the perfect breeding ground for bacteria which causes ear infections. A nice working crop allows lots of air flow keeping the ear dry and cleaner resulting in fewer if not no ear infections.
Safety:
I plan on in the future once I get my farm/ranch, having Caucasian Ovcharka and Central Asian Ovcharka as livestock guarders against wolves, coyotes, wold dogs and anything else that would like to try to harm my animals. Floppy ears are a perfect "handle" that when ripped makes a bloody mess when fighting off other canids. Cropping the ear means nothing for the wolf or coyote or whatever to grab on to.
I also plan on having a PatStaff or a PatStaffJag as a verminator for the barn buildings of my farm/ranch. These lil guys will be up against anything from mice to rats to coons. If you have ever excountered a coon, you will know that they can fight back very nasty when cornered. Again the ears are just something for the coon to bite and tear making a painful bloody mess for the dog. A good working crop stops this from happening and the dog is able to rid the barn of the pesky rodents a lot easier!
Need me to go on?

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Actually for some of the breeds I hope to own and the stuff I''d like to do with them, cropping isn''t for cosmetics, it''s for health and safety!
haha -that old cherry pip ;)
All our dogs here must be walking health hazards with cropping being illegal :yikes:

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Health:
A breed such as a Cane Corso has very thick, heavy ears that hang down. Even with thorough cleaning often, moisture gets trapped inside the ear and it is also very dark and warm which is the perfect breeding ground for bacteria which causes ear infections. A nice working crop allows lots of air flow keeping the ear dry and cleaner resulting in fewer if not no ear infections.
Safety:
I plan on in the future once I get my farm/ranch, having Caucasian Ovcharka and Central Asian Ovcharka as livestock guarders against wolves, coyotes, wold dogs and anything else that would like to try to harm my animals. Floppy ears are a perfect "handle" that when ripped makes a bloody mess when fighting off other canids. Cropping the ear means nothing for the wolf or coyote or whatever to grab on to.
I also plan on having a PatStaff or a PatStaffJag as a verminator for the barn buildings of my farm/ranch. These lil guys will be up against anything from mice to rats to coons. If you have ever excountered a coon, you will know that they can fight back very nasty when cornered. Again the ears are just something for the coon to bite and tear making a painful bloody mess for the dog. A good working crop stops this from happening and the dog is able to rid the barn of the pesky rodents a lot easier!
Need me to go on?
I see what you mean for working breeds, but I don't agree with it even in your case.
The ears not being cropped do not prevent them from doing the job. If another animal is attacking them there are many places they can grab onto, including the ears, legs tail, snout etc. Unless you do a terrible crop and completely take away the ears the other animal is still able to grab onto the ears, even if they are cropped.
In regards to the moisture in the ears. Yes, that is a common thing for all dogs breeds with floopy ears. Which dogs should we crop now?? should I take my shih tzu to my vet and ask them to crop his ears??? Of course not. I clean them with a solution every week for maintenence and if there is an infection I pay th vet to fix it.
I look at it this way. I would not take a limb off my child unless that was a serious medical danger to there health that required me to do so. I would need much better reasons than the ones provided to agree with ear cropping.

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I don't think it's about dumb really. It may be more of an uneducated situation. My great grandfather was a chi breeder and he cropped his dogs ears himself. Times have changed as far as awareness. You can't expect everyone to be aware. The best you can do is hope that they will take what you have to say to heart.
I honestly don't think attacking someone is the the right way to handle the situation. You could frustrate them to the point of them taking it out on the puppies.
We are talking about 2006, and it's stupid.......

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Neither the health nor the safety argument really works for me i'm afraid... Simple routine maintenance prevents ear infections for dog breeds with longer ears (even in warmer climates) and many protection/vermin breeds are not traditionally cropped with few problems...

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I don't think the recovery from an ear crop is any more painful than the recovery from a spay/neuter procedure. I've seen cropped puppies, they bang their little cone-heads against everything without even a whimper. When my dog had a hernia corrected, he cried every time he got up. And the incision for that wasn't even as big as a spay.
I don't think the procedure itself is as painful as people make it sound. It's the fact that it's cosmetic (in most cases, let's face it, it is. What's the point of cropping, say, a Great Dane's ears in that long show crop? Certainly not function, but appearance.) that they don't like.
If it is done properly and humanely by a skilled vet, I do not see the need to fight it. There are so many other, far more serious dog-related issues for me to spend my time on. Why harrass the responsible owners and breeders who choose to crop, when there are people chopping their dogs' ears off with scissors, and as we saw at the shelter this week, burning kittens with cigarettes. What makes this worth such vehement disapproval, while things like that go virtually unnoticed? :(

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Um...so you've actually seen `home' crops??? God how nauseating - how did you manage to not rant at the owners?? :(
I've seen crops that I suspected were home jobs, because they were just ugly. I couldn't imagine a veterinarian admitting to doing them. But I generally keep my opinions to myself unless they are asked, or its something immediately hazardous, like a loose dog heading towards traffic. I'm just not a confrontational person, at least off the 'Net.

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We are talking about 2006, and it's stupid.......
Interesting how you can come up with this conclusion without knowing how old the person is, what type of background they have or anything else about them.
It absolutley amazes me sometimes how quick people are to insult instead of educate. Hmmmm, could that be just a little counter productive?

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I guesss ro each their own in this case, you guys can have your uncropped pets and I''ll have my cropped functional working pets ;)
As for which droopy eared breed to crop and which not to to avoid ear infections, basically the breeds that originally got cropped consistantly back in the day got cropped for other reasons and then the discovery of less ear infections were a wonderful added bonus! Have you ever had a bad ear infection? It hurts like a son of a gun! I''d rather my dog have one short pain that it wont even remember (a crop as a young puppy) than it endure a lifetime of pain coming back time and time again. Even if the vet can fix it.
And yes when in a fight there are other limbs in which the agressor could grab on your dog, but those are a lot harder to grab than floppy ears, and it is harder to tear. If this weren''t the case why would cropping start up in the first place?

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Didn't we do like 30 or so pages on a Topic just like this not so long ago?
I have my opinions on cropping (don't like the idea) and others have theirs.
No ammount of debating will change that.

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mmm. i know i shouldn't continue this. but really can't help myself.
i find cropping unnecasary and sometimes cruel. i understand other peoples ideas on it but i find natural ears more attractive on ALL dog breeds. i don't think you should have to crop your dogs ears to show them, that just seems a bit harsh and unfair (or have i been misinformed?)
i have heard that dew-claw removal is also sometimes practiced to stop dogs ripping them off during work. i understan dthat its a risk, but its also part of a dog. i know i don't need my apendix, but i don't remove it just because i MIGHT get sick from it

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Hm. I think I want to have my heel partially removed, I got some really bad blisters lately :)
Okay... go figure, I am also anti-cropping. I think I'd rather spend more time cleaning my dog's ears out to prevent infections daily, then having their ears cropped. But that's just me.

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I don't think the recovery from an ear crop is any more painful than the recovery from a spay/neuter procedure. I've seen cropped puppies, they bang their little cone-heads against everything without even a whimper. When my dog had a hernia corrected, he cried every time he got up. And the incision for that wasn't even as big as a spay.
I don't think the procedure itself is as painful as people make it sound. It's the fact that it's cosmetic (in most cases, let's face it, it is. What's the point of cropping, say, a Great Dane's ears in that long show crop? Certainly not function, but appearance.) that they don't like.
If it is done properly and humanely by a skilled vet, I do not see the need to fight it. There are so many other, far more serious dog-related issues for me to spend my time on. Why harrass the responsible owners and breeders who choose to crop, when there are people chopping their dogs' ears off with scissors, and as we saw at the shelter this week, burning kittens with cigarettes. What makes this worth such vehement disapproval, while things like that go virtually unnoticed? :(
Exactly :hail:

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My great grandfather was a chi breeder and he cropped his dogs ears himself
Huh? Chihuahuas ears aren't cropped. They stand up naturally.
This link will describe why a Doberman (for one) is cropped.
http://bakaridobes.westhost.com/publiceducation/PECEars.html
If my Doberman had natural ears, he'd look like an outgoing, friendly Coonhound to some unsuspecting idiot who might come barging up to him to hug and pat him, as so many people tend to do with some dogs. If they thought he was so in love with having strangers approach him that way, there could be serious consequences. With the cropped ears, there's usually recognition that he is indeed the reputed protection dog who you don't rush up to carelessly. That's just a little side effect of having a Doberman look like the traditional Doberman.
As far as cropping, the heeling is fast. Within 2 days, according to my breeder, the pups' edges of the ears are itchy, not in any pain. The puppies were wrestling and biting eachother, knocking into eachother and into the cabinets in the kitchen and she said they never even let out a yelp. They heel very fast, as it is cartilege. It's really not as horrible as it's sometimes made out to be. By the time I got Lyric at 9 weeks, he was all but completely heeled, a couple of scabs. That's two weeks after he was done.
I think people ought to put more energy in stopping abuse to animals, including using some of the harsh, unfair and psychologically damaging training methods which last a lifetime.
However, the point of this thread was a do-it-yourself cropping job and that is really disgusting with no anesthesia and perhaps improper after care.

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Huh? Chihuahuas ears aren't cropped. They stand up naturally.
I was wondering when someone was going to bring this up. That's exactly my point about times have changed as well as awareness and education.
I didn't say that my great grandfather was a responsible breeder. I would also like to add that he was born in Italy in 1886 and from what I have been told, he breed his chis because he loved them so much.
Unfortunately not everyone comes from backgrounds that are as aware or as sypathetic as most of us here. I think it's important to keep that in mind before we trash people that we know nothing about.

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mmm. i know i shouldn't continue this. but really can't help myself.

i find cropping unnecasary and sometimes cruel. i understand other peoples ideas on it but i find natural ears more attractive on ALL dog breeds. i don't think you should have to crop your dogs ears to show them, that just seems a bit harsh and unfair (or have i been misinformed?)

i have heard that dew-claw removal is also sometimes practiced to stop dogs ripping them off during work. i understan dthat its a risk, but its also part of a dog. i know i don't need my apendix, but i don't remove it just because i MIGHT get sick from it Dewclaws are also often removed in toy breeds because otherwise, they could do a lot of damage to those prominent, delicate eyes.

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I prefer to see Dobermans and Great Danes in natural ears. I'm not a fan of cropping on any dog since it IS cosmetic, not a nessessary procedure. But hey, if someone wants to cut off part of their dog's ears have at it as long as it's done by a skilled vet.
It's the tapeing afterward to 'train' the ears that I think bothers the dogs more than the actual procedure. I've seen some poor dogs taped up for a LONG time and I just can't imagine how annoying and uncomforable that has to be...all just so they'd look a certain way.

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I think it's important to keep that in mind before we trash people that we know nothing about.
Are you referring to my comment? Huh? Chihuahuas ears aren't cropped. They stand up naturally. If so, where on earth do you read where I was trashing anyone? My comment was short and simple. I was merely curious why a breed whose ears stand up all by themselves would need to be cropped. I did not say one derogatory thing about your grandfather, not one.
And as far as the cropping at home, the topic of this thread, people have every right to trash someone they know nothing about. They know one thing about them, the one thing that matters when that is the topic or subject...that they're being irresponsible and disregarding an animal by not having a licensed vet do the procedure. That is the general opinoin of most people in this day and age. So to compare something that people might have done in the 1800's is irrelevant to this situation and irrelevant to the present day when education is here for the taking and veterinary care is at our disposal.

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It's the tapeing afterward to 'train' the ears that I think bothers the dogs more than the actual procedure. I've seen some poor dogs taped up for a LONG time and I just can't imagine how annoying and uncomforable that has to be...all just so they'd look a certain way.
Have you ever had a cropped dog or done the posting procedure? I used very soft material in the ears, very well cushioned. The bottom of the "post" goes into the floor or well of the ear and not where the canal opening is. I used paper tape which comes off painlessly and pre-streched vet wrap which is not sticky. This began at a very, very early age so the dog knows nothing else. It becomes the normal thing to him. It is not uncomfortable. The pup shows no signs of distress, discomfort or of being bothered unless the thing is coming loose, in which case it needs to be fixed up or the ears won't turn out right.
My pup took it all in stride and would in fact often sleep right through my posting. He'd be lying on the couch and I'd just fix him right up. The posts are very light weight. When it was winter, they kept his ears warm too. If he was awake, it was a sort of bonding thing. He got all kinds of attention, praise and treats for holding still. He learned how to hold still for other things. It was all associated with a perfecly pleasant time.
So, unless you have experienced it first hand, I don't see how you can come up with these judgements about misery to the dog. It all became par for the course and in fact, conditioned my Doberman to trust me with all kinds of procedures that might otherwise be objectionable to him. He is just so use to and comfortable with anything I do with him or the vet does with him...so trusting and tolerant.

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Get a dog that has serious ear infections that simple cleaning so many times a day doesn't fix and that a simple crop would have prevented and you'll get one little reason why they are done. If you say its no big deal then you have never had a dog with a serioues problem like that. My boy couldn't move his head without crying to being perfectly fine the day of his surgery. this obviously all depends on the vet too. thank god dobes are not prone to theses infections though,it sucked,but I'll always get mine cropped now.
What I still don't get it major abd surgery to fix a dog is perfectly ok and looked down on if you don't get it done. But something non life threatening that the dog heals from quickly and only notices a couple days is horrible? You say clean that ears so the ears are not infected(which cleaning does nothing for the problme my boy had)-well keep your dog away from other dogs so it doens't get knocked up.

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Are you referring to my comment? If so, where on earth do you read where I was trashing anyone? My comment was short and simple. I was merely curious why a breed whose ears stand up all by themselves would need to be cropped. I did not say one derogatory thing about your grandfather, not one.
And as far as the cropping at home, the topic of this thread, people have every right to trash someone they know nothing about. They know one thing about them, the one thing that matters when that is the topic or subject...that they're being irresponsible and disregarding an animal by not having a licensed vet do the procedure. That is the general opinoin of most people in this day and age. So to compare something that people might have done in the 1800's is irrelevant to this situation and irrelevant to the present day when education is here for the taking and veterinary care is at our disposal.
I absolutely was not refering to you. And I'm very sorry that it seemed that way. I was referering to the 'stupid' comments that have been posted on this thread.
I also was not accusing anyone of calling my great grandfather stupid either.
My point was that education is the key.
You're comment about chi's ears was a good example towards my point. :)

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Have you ever had a cropped dog or done the posting procedure?
No I have never owned a breed that required cropping, however I have had many clients with pups that we're cropped and needed to be taped. I've seen these owners tape their ears, and I've helped them in some cases with rowdy pups. I'm quite familiar with the procedure even though I personally don't own a dog who's been cropped.
I've seen dogs who did show discomfort, I've seen dogs that ran from their owners when it was time to do this despite plenty of positive reinforcment, and I've seen dogs look absolutly miserable while it was being done and afterward. Now, if your dog is fine with it and wasn't uncomfortable then that's great, but not all dogs adjust so well even with proper training to accept it. I'm just commenting on what I've witnessed, not trying to bash you for chooseing to crop.

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I appologize. Because your post came right after mine asking about why a Chi's ears would need cropping, I mistakenly associated with that context. I sure would never trash your grandfather or anyone way back in those days for doing what they needed to do when there probably weren't a bunch of veterinarians around. It was probably one of those newer professions just coming about. You're right about education though. That's for sure. Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't want you to think that I thought ill of or disrespect for your grandfather.

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both my breeds are cropped but the ear flap is removed...done around 3 days and pretty much healed soon after

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I've seen dogs who did show discomfort
Why? What materials were used? What kind of positive reinforcement was used? There is no reason for this to be miserable to any dog. I belong to a Doberman board with many experienced Dobe owners, some breeders, some who have had Dobes for 35 years or more. We've had these discussions, of course....people asking questions or needing help with posting. And what I have gathered from the vast majority of these Doberman people (and there are a lot) is just how I described my experience with my Doberman....many of them sleeping right through it, playing as usual, no discomfort at all. The only times it was not pleasant were the few times where Lyric didn't feel like holding still and wanted to go play or something was distracting him, like another dog. Then it was disappointing to him to have to hold still for the 2 minutes per ear that it took for me to post him up. LOL. But that's the same thing as when I have to do nails. "Gosh, do I have to?" It's no more uncomfortable than having to sit still and get their nails clipped or Dremelled. I think a lot of people make it more complicated than it needs to be by using poor choices of materials (too sticky tape, hard things in the ears, doing a sloppy, loose job) and their own attitude being passed onto the dog..."this is sooooooo horrible to do." Projecting human, complicated stuff onto the dogs.

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The discomfort was shown by shaking their head repeatedly, pawing at their ears and generally sulking. I doubt the dogs were in PAIN, but they were bothered by it none the less. In terms of positive rienforcement, the standard 'associate this with something good' procedure was done.
I just don't personaly see a good reason to do it. Even if every dog had zero problems with it, I still wouldn't want to see it done. Plus, I prefer the look of an uncropped dog.

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I appologize. Because your post came right after mine asking about why a Chi's ears would need cropping, I mistakenly associated with that context. I sure would never trash your grandfather or anyone way back in those days for doing what they needed to do when there probably weren't a bunch of veterinarians around. It was probably one of those newer professions just coming about. You're right about education though. That's for sure. Thanks for clearing that up. I didn't want you to think that I thought ill of or disrespect for your grandfather.
No need to apologize. After I saw your post I reread mine and completely understood why you thought that. Again, I'm sorry for that.

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No problem Mamasobuco. I feel kind of stupid. Sometimes I'm just a little jumpy. LOL.
Well, Silverpaws, you're right. It's not better than not doing anything to their ears. But it's certainly not the abuse that people make it out to be and most people prefer the cropped Doberman, in this country anyhow.
There are purposes or functions for it, albeit not hugely important, I guess. I know my dogs never get ear ifections from yeast like my Lab did and some of my floppy earred mixes. She had yeast over growth almost constantly and was regularily on Ottomax. My GSDs, my Chi's and my Dobe have never once had an infeciton. My Lab went deaf and she wasn't even all that old yet. I wonder if those infections had something to do with it. There is something about the air circulation, something about the cone of hearing with upright ears. The pinpointing of direction is much more accurate and hearing in general more keen with upright ears. This has been studied and demonstrated. For a dog who is bred for protection, this is no small attribute. It's easier to see which exact direction my dog is alerting to. It plays a role in his job.
And yes, I'll admit, I do love the look of an alert, tight fitting Doberman and cropped ears and a docked tail adds to this look...no appendages sticking out for anyone to grab or hurt or to interfer with the dog's job. If I got a rescue who didn't have cropped ears, I'd love it just as much and he'd still be a Doberman. But when given the choice with a puppy, I'd go for the cropped. Actually reputable breeders in this country at any rate always crop their ears. There is no choice in the majority of cases. They want their dogs to represent the breed in the traditional way, I guess.
But it is personal preferrence as far as how one likes them to look or function. And it should remain personal choice because it is not abuse. People really should get off of this and if they're so concerned about animal welfare, they should do something to help animals in real trouble. There are a lot more of those in this world.

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Here, Here Carrie!!!! I don''t understand how people can''t see and understand the true function of a good crop. I mean I totally understand and respect not wanting to get it done in one''s own dog but one should first at least thoroughly examine the benefits of a good crop (and dock for that matter) including discussing with a good reputable vet along with the breeder the procedure, after care and rate of recovery and how it seems to effect the puppies before making a final conclusion about the whole cropping issue. They may be surprised what they would learn!!! I myself have been converted from "I agree with it so long as it is done by someone reputable, but it is not for me" to "Yes I agree with it so long as it is done by someone reputable and all my dogs who should be cropped will be!" thanks to simply taking the time to educate myself and talking to those with cropped and uncropped dogs and comparing them to eachother.

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IMO, there are no health benefits and it's a procedure done based on human emotion, and that's it. A dogs' ears should be left as nature intended.I'm glad more and more vets are refusing to do croppings, and quite happy the ones I work for don't agree with it either.
Sorry, flame me all you want, but I personally think it's a VERY selfish human decision. PERIOD!!!
and happily, that thread on Game-Dogs was closed.

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I don't crop. I cropped my first dane, and cried about it as soon as I picked him up from the vet. His tender pink ears were cut, red, and angry looking. He cried when I touched his head because he was afraid I would hurt them. I had to keep him away from the other dogs because he would yelp if they came near him because he was afraid they'd bump him. He ran from me when it was taping time. Finally, after a few months, I just said forget it. His ears never stood, but I don't care, I just hate that I did it.
Now, I'm not judging people that DO crop. What irks me though is that people claim it's for health reasons (I'm talking about pets....a dog that works is obviously a different can of beans). Dane folks will argue pro cropping all day based on "they might get ear infections or hematomas if they're not cropped". If that's the case, then why aren't bassets and cockers cropped? Those breeds take the cake for infections. And I've seen more German Shepherds with hematomas than I have uncropped danes. If you like the look of cropped ears, that's fine, just say it.
My other reason for not cropping any more is this:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g67/shadowfacedanes/More%20Hannah/hannahstudio2.jpg
That head is gorgeous just the way it is. And I love those soft flappy ears! :)
Now on to the subject of cropping at home - some breeders have veterinarians come to their home to crop puppies. It saves the puppies from being exposed to viruses at the hospital. But again, this is a veterinarian...not some dude with a litter of pups and a pair of scissors. That's just wrong.

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To Shadowfacedanes, that is one awesome looking great dane. Just adorable. Honestly, did not think there would be such a time on the forum for this post. Thanks to all who posted.

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Breeds that need it like bassest etc ears are to vascular to do it safely or they probally would. Instead when those dogs are prone to them they do things like tie there ears up for so long per day or with cockers remove the inner ear so the dog is deaf but no longer suffers from ear infections. I'll never forget the basset across the street running around all day with his ears tied up on his head:p
Danes are one breed I probally would not crop but only because it seems to take sooo long for there ears to stand and I see so many that never do stand even when the owners put all there effort into it.My moms friend bred when I was younger and she kept them till they began to show so she would be doing ears on like eight pups and thats all she ever did when I was over there. byrons ears were a snap compared to that.
I also consider all of my dogs working dogs. if they didn't have a job I woudln't have gotten them. they may not do exactly what they were bred for but running around on a bunch of farms isn't safe for any loose appendages. My husky had her tail broke as a pup and she is seven now and I still cna not touch her tail. All of her is pretty and brushed but her big ratty tail:p

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I don't crop. I cropped my first dane, and cried about it as soon as I picked him up from the vet. His tender pink ears were cut, red, and angry looking. He cried when I touched his head because he was afraid I would hurt them. I had to keep him away from the other dogs because he would yelp if they came near him because he was afraid they'd bump him. He ran from me when it was taping time. Finally, after a few months, I just said forget it. His ears never stood, but I don't care, I just hate that I did it.
Now, I'm not judging people that DO crop. What irks me though is that people claim it's for health reasons (I'm talking about pets....a dog that works is obviously a different can of beans). Dane folks will argue pro cropping all day based on "they might get ear infections or hematomas if they're not cropped". If that's the case, then why aren't bassets and cockers cropped? Those breeds take the cake for infections. And I've seen more German Shepherds with hematomas than I have uncropped danes. If you like the look of cropped ears, that's fine, just say it.
My other reason for not cropping any more is this:
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g67/shadowfacedanes/More%20Hannah/hannahstudio2.jpg
That head is gorgeous just the way it is. And I love those soft flappy ears! :)
Now on to the subject of cropping at home - some breeders have veterinarians come to their home to crop puppies. It saves the puppies from being exposed to viruses at the hospital. But again, this is a veterinarian...not some dude with a litter of pups and a pair of scissors. That's just wrong.
smooches for each of those gorgous ears!!!!!!!!!! They are just devine.:hail:
I still want to do my ears montage to the tune of HAIR i just don't know how. I had my ear pierced when the kids were little up in the cartiledge. That lasts all of one afternoon before i said this is insane, it hurts and what in the world was i thinking. I took it out, and it is still tender in that spot a decade later. I can't see cartlidge being cut in an animal any different. Besides looking at cropped ears makes my stomach queesy (sp?).

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As I already stated cropping in certain breeds started because of other reasons and the health benefits are simply a bonus which stirs some breeders and owners to continue the tradition even in their pets. Bassets never got cropped because their long ears are what help them be able to scent so well by "channeling" scents into their nose. If people were to crop the ears that would kind of defeat the purpose of having the long droopy ears to begin with.
That being said though it''s not like I think badly about someone who doesn''t crop. I think your Great Dane is gorgeous with his/her natural ears. It''s all a matter of choice. i just wish that those dont agree with cropping dont look down upon those of us who do agree with it or do it like we are some evil dog-hating hellion. Not saying that you do but simply in general. Some choose to crop, others don''t, big deal.
By the way I couldn''t help but notice that it sounds like your first dane you cropped you had it done after you picked him up from the breeders? That would mean he was likely over 8 weeks already, correct? Are croppings not typically done MUCH younger than 8 weeks when the cartilidge is even softer?

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It's the tapeing afterward to 'train' the ears that I think bothers the dogs more than the actual procedure. I've seen some poor dogs taped up for a LONG time and I just can't imagine how annoying and uncomforable that has to be...all just so they'd look a certain way.
May I ask... are you female? The best way to explain ear posting is that it parallels bras. If you are female, I bet the first time you wore a bra you were miserable... it was probably tight, itchy, constricting... I bet you couldn't wait to rip it off at the end of the day!
But after a few days, I bet the bra bothered you less and less. Heck, I'm guessing (if you're female) that you're wearing one right now and it isn't bothering you in the slightest - I'm guessing you completely forgot about it until I brought up the subject.
The same seems to apply to dogs with posted ears. Yes, it feels funky the first couple times, but after awhile the dog gets used to the posts... they forget about them, just like women forget about their bras 10 seconds after they're put on.
I've had multiple cropped puppies in my home (all, might I add, done by one of the most acclaimed cropping vets in the country). I know how to tape ears properly, and none of the pups I've taped have ever acted like they even notice the posts.

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Sizzle, yes I'm female and I hate the feeling of my underwire, but I still wear one! :D
Like I said before, I just don't see a good reason for it. Doesn't mean I think it's terrible that you or anyone else here cropped, but I still don't agree with it. It's not required and I'm not the kind of person to want elective procedures done on my pets just for the sake of having it done. If you want to do it then have at it, that's your right.

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I totally agree, people are welcome to have their own opinions. I was just trying to dispel the assumption that posted puppies are in constant misery - they really do forget about the posts quickly - as long as the puppy is properly posted! ;)
I'm of the opinion that no crop is better than a bad crop any day. Both of mine have great crops, but you can be sure that they'd have natural ears if I hadn't gotten them from a responsible breeder who has a great cropper crop her puppies.

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Some missconceptions the working dog 'crop" on my breed is a amputation of the total ear flap at 3 days not a constructed crop at 8 weeks.
The ears do get ripped allot in working LGD dogs .
Ear infections are much less but a bad crop can cause a bad ear infection as well. I have a 10 year old that has chronic ear infections due to a bad job on her ears, i have a bad crop done by a Vet that resulted in too much ear and the wanna bees in show world use that as a way to attack the dog.
I could of put him under the knife and i said NO and endured years of ribbing from competition about his bad ears.
The one dog i have with big ears gets horribly ripped when he is working.
It is a personal choice and i have owners who wants ears for their pets.
I show my dogs and work them last time I entered that eared dog into a show over the winter he got into it with feral dogs and I lost my entry fee and my hotel dep for the nite....
So again just personal choices.
My avatar has the classsic correct crop..

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I don't see any point to it. I think a lot of times it was started so a dog would look "mean" and sometimes just for fashion. People used to crop dalmations' ears, for crying out loud. I can see the point in tail docking in some breeds, but not ear cropping.
On a different note, I'll bet Paris Hilton's next big fad will be to buy a labrador and have a heart or flower design punched out of the middle of its ear.

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Bite your tongue! Don't give the Holly-idiots any ideas!

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Yes I agree some of the Pit crops can give impressions of meaness when it is normally on a sweet dog..
My breed looks more goofy with them but it does not make them look mean to have the ear flap removed...

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By the way I couldn''t help but notice that it sounds like your first dane you cropped you had it done after you picked him up from the breeders? That would mean he was likely over 8 weeks already, correct? Are croppings not typically done MUCH younger than 8 weeks when the cartilidge is even softer?
He was 8 1/2 weeks old. Most danes are cropped between 7 - 10 weeks of age, depending on weight.

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Ha - anyone who has to wear a bra knows that they suck worse than anything and although you get used to it you never like it or want to wear one. It's just a necessity. If someone could come up with something different they'd be a trillionaire in seconds!!
Now, back to the original topic, sorry....

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I'm against ear cropping. I'm against any procedure on a dog that is for cosmetic appearances only, and unless a dog is actually having problems with their ears, cropping is 100% because the owner just wants it (most of the time just because they like the "look").
I worked as a vet tech for years. We didn't do ear croppings, but we did deal with a number of them done by other vets and the dogs for the most part were miserable. Yes, there are some out there who have dogs who haven't had a problem - but there are a LOT who do. I wouldn't want to chance it just to have a certain "look" to my dog. To make my dog's ears pointy to satisfy my own ego would be completely wrong to me. Instead, I just get pointy-eared dogs to start with .. *L* .. I refused a show doberman once because they insisted I get the ears cropped (they wanted to give me pick of the litter).
I can't see how people can compare a spay or neuter to a cropping. Spays and neuters are for health reasons, or to keep their dogs from adding to the pet over-population problem. It's not a selfish reason. To me, cropping ears is completely selfish. Why create any unneccesary pain to your dog, even if it's just a little? That's why I don't tend to use punishment in training, too. I don't want to add pain to my dogs when it's not necessary.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska

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I'm against ear cropping. I'm against any procedure on a dog that is for cosmetic appearances only, and unless a dog is actually having problems with their ears, cropping is 100% because the owner just wants it (most of the time just because they like the "look").
I worked as a vet tech for years. We didn't do ear croppings, but we did deal with a number of them done by other vets and the dogs for the most part were miserable. Yes, there are some out there who have dogs who haven't had a problem - but there are a LOT who do. I wouldn't want to chance it just to have a certain "look" to my dog. To make my dog's ears pointy to satisfy my own ego would be completely wrong to me. Instead, I just get pointy-eared dogs to start with .. *L* .. I refused a show doberman once because they insisted I get the ears cropped (they wanted to give me pick of the litter).
I can't see how people can compare a spay or neuter to a cropping. Spays and neuters are for health reasons, or to keep their dogs from adding to the pet over-population problem. It's not a selfish reason. To me, cropping ears is completely selfish. Why create any unneccesary pain to your dog, even if it's just a little? That's why I don't tend to use punishment in training, too. I don't want to add pain to my dogs when it's not necessary.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
I agree, 100%. I'm very glad I own natural breeds that don't need this work done. If I did own a dog that was traditionally one way, well, it wouldn't be that way in my home. Tradition doesn't excuse it, IMO.
Luckily I rarely have to engage in this debate, since my dogs are natural breeds. But if I ever have to, I always hold my ground.

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Seriously, bras SUCK. I'm on a different, non-pet message board with 99% female posters and someone posted "Do you wear your bra to bed?" WHAT! Are you kidding me?? The majority of the posters, like me, toss the evil thing aside as soon as they get home from work.

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I'm against ear cropping. I'm against any procedure on a dog that is for cosmetic appearances only, and unless a dog is actually having problems with their ears, cropping is 100% because the owner just wants it (most of the time just because they like the "look").
I worked as a vet tech for years. We didn't do ear croppings, but we did deal with a number of them done by other vets and the dogs for the most part were miserable. Yes, there are some out there who have dogs who haven't had a problem - but there are a LOT who do. I wouldn't want to chance it just to have a certain "look" to my dog. To make my dog's ears pointy to satisfy my own ego would be completely wrong to me. Instead, I just get pointy-eared dogs to start with .. *L* .. I refused a show doberman once because they insisted I get the ears cropped (they wanted to give me pick of the litter).
I can't see how people can compare a spay or neuter to a cropping. Spays and neuters are for health reasons, or to keep their dogs from adding to the pet over-population problem. It's not a selfish reason. To me, cropping ears is completely selfish. Why create any unneccesary pain to your dog, even if it's just a little? That's why I don't tend to use punishment in training, too. I don't want to add pain to my dogs when it's not necessary.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
Maybe people that have their dogs ears cropped should also have to have a piece of their own ears removed.. I bet that would bring the cropping to a screeching halt ;)

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I do believe that that is against the law, at least in Michigan. You have to be a licensed vet. And alot of breed standards have changed as far as having to crop the dogs ears.

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I have not read through this entire thread. So, if I repeat what some have already said.. I'm sorry.
I have mixed feelings on ear cropping. My mom has had dobies for years and hers have always had their ears cropped. It didn't seem to bother them at all. I like the look of the dobies better with their ears cropped.
I think that if it is done by a responsible vet that it's okay. I know a lot of you would prefer the natural look to a dog.. and I do too for the most part. But there are some dogs that have ear trouble and would benefit from cropping. And then of course there are the dogs that get it done just for looks.
Home cropping should never be allowed. Any surgery is done with sterile technique. How can they do a sterile procedure at home? Besides.. what are they using for tools.. a pair of household scissors or a knife from their butcher block on the counter.

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I think those "ear trouble" croppings, from the start, have been disproved. At least by breed that is.
If an individual dog has ear problems, which absolutely require cropping (which is probably rare) then I don't have a problem with it. Same with docking. Other than that, it's cosmetic. Not prevention.

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I think those "ear trouble" croppings, from the start, have been disproved. At least by breed that is.
If an individual dog has ear problems, which absolutely require cropping (which is probably rare) then I don't have a problem with it. Same with docking. Other than that, it's cosmetic. Not prevention.
I agree.. it probably is mostly cosmetic. That is part of the reason I have mixed feelings about it. I know some say it's barbaric and traumatizing to the pup.. causing terrible pain. I have just not experienced seeing that kind of response to cropped ears. I've seen several pups after the cropping that acted like it was nothing more than a nuisance to them. I'm sure there are other cases that do not fit that description.
My whole thing is that home cropping should not be allowed. If you are going to get the ears cropped, go to a reputable and qualified vet to have the procedure done.
I get the sense that many are against the cropping because it's an elective procedure for cosmetic reasons. And that it's inhumane to put your dog through such a procedure for looks. I know it's not the same thing.. but I was wondering what you would do if you had a child with very large ears that stuck out. There's no medical reason to have them pinned back or altered to look more "normal". But people have that done for cosmetic reasons. Is that wrong?