smacking / hitting dogs: is this an acceptable form of correction? - Page 5

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I can honestly say I've never smacked any of my dogs or children..........not even a tap on the nose (dogs that is)

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Originally Posted by ragga_dood Does smacking a dog that chases sheep stop them, and if not, what does? It is very, very, unlikely that smacking a dog, or even giving it a severe beating, would stop it chasing livestock. Once the dog has seen the sheep run then the prey drive takes over and, unless extremely well trained, nothing is going to stop it. Even some working herding dogs have too much drive to be of use to a farmer. It is possible to teach a dog that has never chased livestock to ignore them. This takes a great deal of time and patience. Dogs should be kept on lead at all times if there is a chance of them encountering livestock.

PS. With reference to putting a sheep chaser in with a ram, it is said to be more effective to use a ewe with a lamb at foot. I have my doubts that either would cure a dedicated chaser, but maybe it would work with a young, inexperienced dog?

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The only time my dogs get 'smacked' is when we're wrestling or playing.

Using violence with any pet is as antiquated as rubbing their nose in their excrement to teach them to go to the bathroom outside.

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I have to admit to using a rolled up newspaper on the odd occasion,
I don't ever use force when I do, and generally just rolling up the newspaper works, so it is very rare that I do this and actually it's the noise of the paper that works,as a tap does not hurt the dog at all.

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interesting subject.

different people react differently to different situations. a voice command is all thats needed from me, but some people just dont gettit, and cant change their tone. (these are the people you see jumping up and down in a rage when their dog wont do something). dogs look at each other for signals, as they look at us. when i come home and look about the place, i either smile and greet them, in which case they run up to me tails up, or i frown (seeing a mess.... occasionally a bed is in pieces, or papers have been found and shredded) in which case the tails go down and they wait for further instruction. if papers are strwen about, i pick them up and shake them in the air. this is enough for the dogs to realise they have done a bad thing. i then clean up, and once everything is orderly again, i say, ok come say hi (and i get the greeting). physical punishment has nothing to do with it, yet you would think i have belted them! its all emotional, what i have come to learn, is dogs hate to be in the 'dog house' and when you learn to communicate through body language (and tone) the effects are amazing. for example, if your dog is lying down one night watching tv, smile at it, but dont move a limb. your dog should come to you, recongnising this signal as a 'hello'. if not you may have to work on your silent communitcation skills.

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Quote fron Jess: "if your dog is lying down one night watching tv, smile at it, but dont move a limb. your dog should come to you, recongnising this signal as a 'hello'. if not you may have to work on your silent communitcation skills." end quote.

Not quite as simple as this Jess. This implies that a dog who does not respond to this facial signal has a handler/owner who is totally lacking in non-verbal communication skills. I find this post a trifle lacking in understanding. I can smile at my dogs and simply get a 'soft' look in reply whilst they remain in position. Do you think that I need to "work on my silent communication skills"? You cannot give a stock answer for all situations. Most experienced dog owners would recognize that this is unfeasible but, be aware, there are people who read these posts who are completely new to dog ownership.

Do you really believe that waving bits of shredded paper around makes the dogs believe that they have erred? Would you not get the same response from them if you came in and waved a scarf around whilst maintaining a cross expression and hostile body language?

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yes i did think of that at the time i wrote it, i thought it would be fun for people to try at home, and see what response they get. it is a conditioned response, from working on body langauge skills, i can 'talk' to my dogs. it doesnt mean your a bad person if you cant do this, it just means you either have a different way do doing things (talking) or your dog doesnt understand facial expressions.

yes the waving of papers around works. it doesnt happen for a couple weeks, and then it might happen, and then i do it again. if i waved the scarf around, i dont think they would understand, as they werent playing with the scarf; it was the papers that were littering the floor, that they stole off the table! again, it wont work for everyone... everyone is different, like when i wrote in the other post about the scruff of the neck. if i was causing pain to my dogs, i would be able to tell, by their reaction, they would be scared or threatened by me. they are not. think of it as a mother taking her child roughly by the hand leading away from a bad or dangerous situation... other children wouldnt understand it, it something that happens over time that both handler and dog/child are used to. but no you are right, you cant tell that to new people and expect them to understand.

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But Jess, it is your body language that your dogs are responding to, not papers waved or scarves waved, it is your expression and your posture. It is no different from housetraining. Your pup does not associate the poo it did an hour ago to the displeasure that your voice, expression, and body language express. Try telling your dog in gruff, harsh terms, whilst standing up straight that he/she is a wonderful, good, excellent, beautiful, pup. Then try telling him/her in a sweet high-pitched voiced that he/she is the most evil thing that ever walked, whilst coveying 'soft' posture. In the first instance the dog is likely to look 'guilty, in the second it will be happy.

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of course i understand how that can happen...but tell me, why when i have cleared up the mess, do the dogs come out and decide its time to then say 'hi'? its my body langauge saying ok, the bad bits over. when i pick up the papers and rustle them in the air, its just my way of getting over the anger, without physically harming the dogs. i am emoitionally harming them, as they desperatly want to come and greet me.

if it works for me, then dont judge me on your standards. no one knows everything, but people always want to share their knowledge, forgetting that there isnt ever just ONE way of doing things. what works for me with my dogs, doesnt (as i have proved) work for others with my dogs... as we all react slighlty differently to different situations. here is an example. jaz frequently stays with my parents if i have a weekend course or whatever. he loves it there, but knows he can get off with murder. if he does something terrible, like run onto the street, i will change my tone to 'jaaaz' and if he doesnt come but looks, i might go as far as baring my teeth at him (which to him simply means, ok she is mad now, i better behave) (by the way, i dont bare my teeth in the dog sense trying to imitate them, i do it because its something i dont in any other circumstance of daily life...so its delibarate and unignorable.) anyway, joey (my brother) and my dad have both tried this, and in each case jaz ignores them, they can stomp their feet all they like and jaz just gives them the two fingered paw. so dogs respond differently to people in different circumstances. (jaz knows he on 'holiday' and can do what the hell he likes!)
p.s. prinz behaves the same with me, or my parents, and honey...well she is scared of everyone but me, so that doesnt count!

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i was just thinking, that may sound to you like jaz is threatened by me so does what he is told. i dont smack my dogs, infact i have 'trained' jaz to growl and bark like a dog with rabies if someone raises a hand to him (its scary, but he is just looking for a biscuit, it is meant to scare, he would never bite) as i said i grab their scruff instead of smacking, and when i do this, he immediatly goes into submission mode, and heels to my left until i release. however if anyone else trys this he turns and mouths their hand wanting to play. he doesnt take them seriously at all. i cant figure it out so any ideas would be welcome. on the days he goes there he has to be on lead cos i cant trust him